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New build vs. renovation? - Youser - 03-24-2009
I am wondering if in this current economic climate if it's cheaper to build a new house from scratch or renovate an older one.
I have heard if you go as far as replacing part of the existing roof, changing the location of internal walls, and putting in all new windows it would be more expensive than starting from scratch. But if you have the foundation and outer walls in place already doesn't that save a lot of money, not to mention grading, landscaping, draughting, permits, etc?
On a new build, is there a rule of thumb in $/sq. ft which does take into account everything from clearing the lot to building a house?
RE: New build vs. renovation? - gtill - 03-24-2009
I think that would have a lot to do with the integrity of the old house, and your wallet. If it's pretty sound, it would be cheaper, but ifn termited or ortherwise rotted, not.
RE: New build vs. renovation? - Rob Tucker - 03-24-2009
As a professional builder we generally (and I mean generally) consider renovation to be more costly than new construction. This is, of course, based on labor costs primarily. If a person is doing thier own work and not valuing their time highly then renovation might be more cost effective.
It is true, as gtill says, that the integrity of the building will matter a lot.
For my part I did very well by buying an old plantation tear down years ago. The advantages to me were a good location, elect. meter, water meter, telephone and cable lines, and an ISDS. Disadvantages were 50 truckloads of trash. The trash was actually an advantage in a way. Because of the drifts of garbage there was little interest in the property - I got it cheap. The trash was rather easy to collect and once removed did not grow back. Where others saw problems I saw solutions. Worked well for me.
The demolition of the old redwood house (riddled with termites) was rather effortless. I also preferred not clearing any new ground and reusing a home site from a foot print perspective.
RE: New build vs. renovation? - John S. Rabi - 03-24-2009
quote:That separates the successful people from the not-so-successful people. [
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
Where others saw problems I saw solutions.
]Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,ARB,BFT,CM,CBR,FHS,PB,RB
808.989.1314
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"
RE: New build vs. renovation? - gtill - 03-24-2009
It also seperates the haves from the have nots. Not commenting on either, but that teardown and cleanup to start from scratch costs a lot, and if you followed the EPA standards for disposal (lead paint asbestos etc), the removal would have been much more.
Add the cost of an all new building, and you've got a big bill. Because the original building was beyond hope it was necessary. But Johns remark about being smarter isn't necessarily correct, hell we've already been burned by a 10% rip off in just buying it (realtors fees), money is an object which some have more than others, it doesn't make them smarter.
RE: New build vs. renovation? - Youser - 03-24-2009
Gtill, that is what I was thinking. To tear down and dispose of an entire house to start over must cost thousands before you can even start building up again. And then of course, all the new materials. I do understand it's sometimes tricky to work with what is there and salvage some parts while destroying other parts but are we not now entering a world where using what we have is a good idea, if it's useable?
BTW are you saying you paid 10% realtor fees for a house or did you mean land?
Rob I think I may have stumbled upon a similar house - this one is filled with trash, dirty paint and old carpets but in a nice location. I see beyond that and think there's a very nice house hiding under all that mess. It's got a good pad, good exterior walls, water, electricity, attached garage - but needs a partial new roof and complete reworking of the interior.
I was hoping some of the realtors or builders on the forum could suggest some sq. ft. costs for upgrades and new builds.
What about costs of the various elements: roofing, framing, electrical, plumbing, - maybe that's what I should be looking at to get an idea of what is the most sensible approach.
I am not a handyman but have a lot of willingness to get my hands dirty and do as much as I can. And something tells me this would be less daunting (and hopefully less expensive) than starting with a tree filled lot.
RE: New build vs. renovation? - Rob Tucker - 03-24-2009
Aloha Youser,
To me location is very, very important. Sounds like you found something in better condition than I did. I originally prepared plans for a renovation of the existing structure but once I got into it I realized that no even one board could be salvaged so I did a demo. Got a demolition permit too. I subcontracted the demolition and hauling. It was very reasonable and they left the site clean, even picked up broken glass.
Another thing I wanted and got from an old homestead was mature trees. I didn't particularly want to wait a lifetime to have nice trees. So I acquired a grove of 70 year old Norfolk Island Pines, a large banyan and a dozen or so queen palms. Two of the Norfolks I cut down, milled and used the lumber (after seasoning two years) for cabinets and furniture. At this point I have a hand turned pine bowl sitting on a table made from the same tree which had grown up on site. I kind of enjoy that.
There likely aren't many old run down plantation homes left but there are some. I consider them to be real prime opportunities for the right person.
RE: New build vs. renovation? - John S. Rabi - 03-24-2009
quote:I believe the quotes for an average house are around $130/sq.ft. now. I don't think anyone can give you an estimated cost of what you are asking. It would depend on the condition of the individual house and on what would have to be done.
Originally posted by Youser
I was hoping some of the realtors or builders on the forum could suggest some sq. ft. costs for upgrades and new builds.
Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,ARB,BFT,CM,CBR,FHS,PB,RB
808.989.1314
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"
RE: New build vs. renovation? - Rob Tucker - 03-24-2009
There is an old shack across the street from the Cash & Carry which is under "renovation". The owner assumed that keeping the shell and renovating was a good economic decision. Talking to her recently she seems to have changed her mind on that. She is finding the reno to be much more expensive than just removing the shack and building new.
I already knew that.
Selective demolition is time consuming and once you start tearing out bad stuff it's hard to find the best place to stop. Especially in termite riddled structures. So the best wishes and estimates end up in the trash.
It's like John says above. No one can tell what a reno will ultimately cost. Renovations are best left to those with the skills, time and tools or to those with deep wallets.
RE: New build vs. renovation? - Blakeyboy1 - 03-24-2009
Don't forget to consider the environmental costs of the waste. It may not affect you financially (at least in the short-term) but all that old material has to go somewhere. <wink>
I am a trained interior designer and have some architecture experience as well so I have been guilty of disposing old to make room for new too but it never hurts to look at the greenest possible option (which may actually be a new, better built structure). If you can spend a few extra dollars to do the right thing.
-Blake
http://www.theboysgreatescape.blogspot.com/