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more aviation news - Bullwinkle - 09-12-2009
http://www.reuters.com/article/innovationNews/idUSTRE58A40V20090911
Delta talks about a stake in japan airlines... that could be another nudge towards HNL becoming a major asian port of entry
The unwritten agenda in this story imho - China - grin
Aloha
RE: more aviation news - ric - 09-13-2009
I don't know how to interpret this. It's not really clear from the article whether that would be an increase in routes for Delta or actually a decrease. Since Delta already operates routes to Seoul, Shanghai, Tokyo, etc..., not sure whether this is an expansion or just a code-sharing agreement to let them sell tickets thru and have them operated by JAL?
RE: more aviation news - Bullwinkle - 09-13-2009
The plot thickens AA jumped into the bidding this morning. ... It will mean entre' into the asian markets including some now JAL only Japnanse airports. They do not have open sky agreements as yet.
Down the road ... The Chinese / asian traveler is what has the industry salivating right now. Those Chinese passengers and planes will need to stop for fuel on the way to the mainland
I think HNL will be the logical spot to clear customs & migration before they proceed and will change planes here for the final mainland destination. Lets hope (or not depending on politics I guess) they spend a week in the process
edited spelling and a bit of clarity
RE: more aviation news - PaulW - 09-13-2009
Why would the Chinese planes need to stop in Hawaii for fuel?
RE: more aviation news - ric - 09-13-2009
Bullwinkle, I agree with your estimation that everyone's interested in the Chinese market, but I don't think anyone really needs to stop for fuel, as those planes can make it from Shanghai to New York without stopping, although I can see how that would be nice for Hawaii if it happened.
RE: more aviation news - Bullwinkle - 09-13-2009
quote:
Originally posted by ric
Bullwinkle, I agree with your estimation that everyone's interested in the Chinese market, but I don't think anyone really needs to stop for fuel, as those planes can make it from Shanghai to New York without stopping, although I can see how that would be nice for Hawaii if it happened.
They can make it ... but they airlines hate it... "being a money loosing tanker for for the first half, ... to eek out a profit on the second" I have heard that expression more than once.
There will be a large second tier of etops aircraft landing in hnl, those folks going on to chicago lets say.
We will see groups at first.. but then the independent traveler .
I keep hammering lax - ams route 'cause i know it so well ... but the current example .... delta thru atlanta 1 stop cheap, (17 hrs) us air 2 stops.. pits burg / philadelphia / ams really cheap and brutal (24 hrs)...... air france / klm 747 non stop 10 hrs with a hot towel - priceless - grin
I envision similarities in the china model and in a stretch hope Hilo having the capacity becomes the port of choice for the airlines -- funny how we have the room, but charge the (one of the ?) most per passenger.... may be wise to address that
coffee done - back to the shop, Aloha
RE: more aviation news - JerryCarr - 09-13-2009
Flights from Northeast Asia follow the great circle routing system which takes them over Kamchatka, Alaska, and west central Canada to destinations in the Eastern and Central USA. West Coast USA destinations follow the Pacific coast down from Alaska. Hawaii is very much out of the way, and the savings obtained from not having to carry fuel great distances would be lost by the greater length of the total journey. Honolulu's best hope as an airline hub would seem to be to connect passengers to Oceania, Australia, and the South Pacific, with perhaps the Phillipines and Guam thrown in.
Cheers,
Jerry
RE: more aviation news - Bullwinkle - 09-13-2009
good great circle analysis
Then why would hawaiian buy a bunch of a330's AA and delta posturing for the routes he asks in puzzlement?
....flip that arc over the other way china, japan, hnl and up from the bottom?
added question mark
RE: more aviation news - JerryCarr - 09-13-2009
According to this calculator http://www.webflyer.com/travel/mileage_calculator/ the distance from Beijing to Denver (a fairly central North American air hub) via Honolulu is 8340 miles vs. 6350 miles via a non-stop great circle route. Quite a difference, and it's even more for most points east of Denver.
Cheers,
Jerry
RE: more aviation news - DanielP - 09-13-2009
Perhaps Hawaiian sees potential from India as well and perhaps Hawaii as a niche vacation destination for the Asian continent.