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+--- Thread: Long Term Effects of Bulldozing (/showthread.php?tid=6922)
Long Term Effects of Bulldozing - tahitianskies - 02-22-2010
My partner and I recently purchased several acres in the Glenwood area to pursue homesteading. We have very deep soil and little rock to deal with. There are lots of tall Ohia trees on the land, and much of it is being choked out by strawberry guava infestation. We would like to clear as much of the property as possible of the guava infestation while keeping the Ohia intact and healthy. We've brought in an excavator and a D9 to do some work, and though they may note show immediate damage to the trees, there is significant damage to some of the roots. I know that Ohia roots can be very shallow and that some smaller tractors/bulldozers can cause less damage, but I'm wondering on what others may have experienced in selective clearing? What is the effect on the trees over many years? Any other suggestions to tackle the guava?
RE: Long Term Effects of Bulldozing - janeadams - 02-22-2010
Skies,
We had an initial clearing of only the area needed to build our house and greenhouse. We had nothing but invasive species in those areas, so nothing to protect. Since then, we've been hand-clearing (chainsaw, chipper, lots of sweat), and found small ohia and a very few other treasures amongst the guava and paperbarks. The mulch (wealth!) from the chipping gets used on the Vireya nursery display beds, and we give what can't be chipped away to neighbors. While its taken years, it gives you time to gain control of an area of your property and incorporate its upkeep into your work patterns. If you clear it all at once, you risk it getting away from you really quick!
damage to trees -- mainly, the ohias are stressed by things going over their root areas. I would recommend not using any heavy equipment around them if you want to preserve them. Also, when you use heavy equipment, you end up with slash piles that take years to decompose, especially guava.
When we cut a tree or bush, we treat the cut stems/trunks with Remedy to keep them from re-growing. Sometimes that means going back and spraying a second or third time to really get it killed. Vigilance R Us... If you don't have lots to deal with, some folks paint it on at full strength.
Anyway, while the big cats are quicker, more damage is done, and you might miss those gems or kill the Ohias that you want to preserve. Mulch is good, especially stuff you create yourself.
My $.02 worth...
Jane
RE: Long Term Effects of Bulldozing - pslamont - 02-22-2010
HI. I am on N. Glenwood Rd. I hired a group of guys and found a couple that are awesome at hand clearing. We did a 10 foot wide perimeter around 30 acres. IT took a LONG time and is cost, but was totally worth it. This allowed us to fence in the property for our current sheep and cattle coming. I would be happy to hook you up with them if you want some guys to clear and they did a really good job fencing also. Aloha, Pam
I want to be the kind of woman that, when my feet
hit the floor each morning, the devil says
"Oh Crap, She's up!"
RE: Long Term Effects of Bulldozing - MarkP - 02-22-2010
I have land in Eden Roc. It is almost all pahoehoe with only an inch or two of soil. If I want to grow something I pretty much have to rip. If you have soil I would not go near the Ohias. I lost a couple I thought were going to make it because the bulldozer got near them or because their roots got buried. I have been told by others with the state forestry department that if you go near an ohia with a bulldozer you should just cut it down because it will probably die anyway. Apparently they really are sensitive.
I would be prepared to clear by hand but if I want to grow any tree crops there is a huge incentive to bulldoze because of the pahoehoe. Sounds like you don't have to deal with that problem. You could clear the guava by hand. Before you get very far you will wish you had used the D-9 (guava is that tough and miserable to clear) but it can be done.
RE: Long Term Effects of Bulldozing - MarkP - 02-22-2010
If I have interpreted JWFITZ's posts correctly he has incorporated the gradual removal and use of the guava into his lifestyle to the point where he is running out now. That's a problem many others wish they had.
RE: Long Term Effects of Bulldozing - DanielP - 02-22-2010
When you doze Guava under, it will return 100 fold! Cut and REMEDY one at a time. Sounds too late.
Why would you use a 9 in deep soil? Have the excavator sort the piles. don't just push piles of dirt and wood mixed.
Dan
RE: Long Term Effects of Bulldozing - tahitianskies - 02-23-2010
Thanks all so much for the insight! It sounds as though we may be able to take several approaches. I'm interested in learning more about Remedy, as we haven't really played with any herbicides due to possible toxicity. Anyone worked with Crossbow?
We do plan to cut down as much of the guava as we can to use for mulch and biochar, even building materials. It's so dense that I don't have any worry about us running out! We've even experiments in building some temporary structures with it, and I quite look forward to the actual fruits.
We've done some hand-clearing which has been incredibly labor intensive, but that included wrestling the roots out as well. Using an herbicide would greatly reduce. physical labor. That being said, Pam, I would love a recommendation on the couple that worked with you on your lot.
We came in with a D9 because we wanted to clear a driveway area and needed to dig down a ways. We didn't know at that point that we had the soil that we do, and needless to say, we didn't have him do too much!
Again thanks for the insight, and more is always welcome.
RE: Long Term Effects of Bulldozing - DanielP - 02-23-2010
Talk to Garden Exchange about herbicides. Remedy can be used very specificly by scoring the trunks with a machete and squirting on a little into the wounds. Yo can also cut and paint the stumps.
Dan
RE: Long Term Effects of Bulldozing - MarkP - 02-23-2010
In my youth I would have had a knee-jerk anti-herbicide attitude but I now see the benefits of chemicals when used properly. Having survived several infections during my life thanks to anti-biotics I am not in any position to denounce their use, although I certainly do denounce their misuse or overuse. Same with pesticides and herbicides.
When I first had my property bulldozed I had a lot of yellow himalayan raspberry springing up everywhere. I went after them while they were still small by uprooting them by hand. It was and is an ongoing project but it really is amazing what you can accomplish through consistent effort and patience. Again, same with the herbicide. Don't get disappointed if repeat applications are necessary and don't overdo the original application. A lot of people want to spray without getting off of their garden tractor, without having to aim and without having to do it again. Surgical application is tedious but effective. My experience with round-up is that it takes weeks before the brush really looks dead, but you can kill guava with round-up.
RE: Long Term Effects of Bulldozing - truebluecollar - 02-24-2010
Crossbow is an excellent herbicide to use against guava. We wanted to use a herbicide that did not involve alot of overspray or waste. Best to buy a refillable squirt bottle such as saline solution bottle and apply it to the freshly cut stumps. If you are cutting alot of guava, leave the stumps a foot or so high so that you can find them later, then go back around with chainsaw and crossbow, cut and poison. Be careful not to trip and fall onto those stumps, you can get hurt really bad or killed. You will need to pick up all the little logs and stubs that are cut when you re-cut the stumps off, we found almost half of them throw down roots and start over. Best thing to do with the brushy trees and logs is chip them up. Even if you start a woodpile, they start to grow again.
We found about 95% or better kill rate with the crossbow when applied on fresh cut stump, so you'll need to go around in 2-3 months and look for re-sprouts. Any cut guava that is not killed or chipped will send up at least 10 more new sprouts and you will end up with a bush of new trees where you had only 1, so you NEED to use poison.
Cheapest place to get crossbow is BEI. Get it by the gallon, you'll use more than one, likely.
Also good idea to get some Turf Trax Blue, which is a dissolvable dye to mix into the crossbow, so you'll know where you've poisoned already. Just 5-10% of the turf trax mixed into the crossbow will give a nice color. It's a mess but will wash off your hands and clothes. We use a kitchen baster and some funnels to handle the turf trax and crossbow, to reduce spilling and to minimize the mess.
The crossbow will work similarly on fai'a.