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+--- Thread: Universal Health Care (/showthread.php?tid=773)
Universal Health Care - Fishboy - 12-09-2006
Oops, I meant to post this in the "What do you do for health care" thread. Sorry.
Now HERE'S a subject I can rant about! It is such crap that the rest of the civilized world lives with health care available to all citizens, and we live in such an affluent society that something as fundamental as a doctor visit is economically beyond a significant percentage of the population. The problem is our technologically advanced state of existence. Our tax dollars support research grants that create new and innovative techniques of keeping us alive, but the the taxpayer is both paying for the development and then for the service.
Heck, maybe a communist system isn't that bad after all.
Well, that's enough, back to my aloha state.....
Brian
Edited by - Fishboy on 12/09/2006 11:14:47
RE: Universal Health Care - Kelena - 12-09-2006
It is sad that we are one of the few developed nations that has no health care for its citizens other than what they can beg, borrow, steal or are given by the few remaining beneficent employers.
When I try to communicate this problem I start with that parable in the bible where Cain asks God (who wants to know where Able is) "What? How do I know? Am I my brother's keeper???"
Well, our country is composed of two diametrically opposed camps of people. The one camp --the camp that is in the majority-- would side with Cain, who strongly suggests that he is NOT his brother's keeper. These people believe it is every man, woman and child for himself, and that the society prospers best when we clear the way for indiviudals to excel, for their own benefit, even if it is to the detriment (within bounds) of others.
The other camp believes that we ARE our brother's keeper, that we can accomplish more if we work together toward a common goal, that we can care for our elderly and that we have an obligation to do so, that all children should have a fair shake at the starting gate through good quality public education, and that we can have universal health care if we all contribute toward that and have a sound, efficient and well incentivized program.
I am my brother's keeper. I am a Democrat.
RE: Universal Health Care - haoleboy - 12-09-2006
I want the best health care I can afford.
I don't want the minimum amount of health care that a new beauracracy is required to provide me.
I also want the liberty to succeed or fail on my own merit. I am a Libertarian.
Let the games begin!
Aloha
Richwhiteboy
"If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free." -- P. J. O'Rourke
RE: Universal Health Care - Kelena - 12-10-2006
Okay, your vote is duly recorded! You like things exactly the way they are, and you side with Cain. You're free!
RE: Universal Health Care - JerryCarr - 12-10-2006
We spend more on health care per capita and as a percent of GDP in this country than any other in the world by a wide margin, and most of the European countries with centralized health services do better than us on most measures of success. The reason they do better with less expenditure is that we spend about 25-30% of our health care budget on overlapping systems of insurance paperwork. They actually have LESS bureaucracy in their government funded system than our private system by eliminating billing and insurance processing.
Haven't we all noticed that in any health care business there are far more people processing paperwork than there are providing care? I had to visit a clinic in the UK once on vacation. When I checked in, there was a short, but thorough, questionnaire on my medical history. When I dutifully offered to provide insurance info or pay, the nurse chuckled and said, "It would cost more to set up a system for charging foreigners than we would take in, so we treat everyone for free."
Don't tell me that we can't do better in this country. The reason we don't have a better system is that we have powerful and entrenched businesses who feed off the unnecessary paperwork.
Cheers,
Jerry
RE: Universal Health Care - Rob Tucker - 12-10-2006
I had the misfortune to be injured while traveling in Europe and found myself going into surgery in a "socialized medicine" country. A few things were interesting about this experience.
1. The hospital was first class. Staff was the best. Food was great. A few days after surgery the doctor told me I was well enough to leave but "If I wanted to stay and rest up for a few more days that was all right"
2. When I got home to the US my disability insurer required I be examined at a US hospital (I think they wanted assurance I wasn't faking it). After being examined by the doctor he left the room saying he'd be back in a minute. He returned with a dozen other doctors to examine my surgery. When I asked why he explained: "I usually don't see work this good and I wanted the other doctors to see it too."
BTW My bill for the Euro treatment was zero.
It may be that there are bad examples of "socialized medicine" that the US should not follow. But it is also true that there are very successfull Euro models that the US chooses to ignore.
RE: Universal Health Care - Francesca - 12-10-2006
So, if I need medical attention perhaps it would be cheaper and I would get better care if I bought a ticket to Europe. : )
RE: Universal Health Care - Green - 12-11-2006
I have good good things about Thailand !!
RE: Universal Health Care - loffelkopffl - 12-12-2006
it still amazes me that there is opposition to universal health care when so many countries with less wealth than we have it, and the argument i want the best doesn't fly, no one would be forced to use the government program, if you wanted to go outside the system and pay thru the nose you could. then there's the money argument, well just look at how much has been wasted on the failed oil war, currently at $2.2 billion a week.
RE: Universal Health Care - Jared I - 12-12-2006
I would be all for universal health care insurance if I was able to opt out of it for me and my family. If I dont want it, do I still have to pay for it? Could I use monies I would have spent as a credit towards a private health insurance?
Maybe I would be for it if people with bad habits like smoking, drug use, drinking alcohol, not wearing your seatbelt, not exercising, poor dental health, poor eating habits, driving a car without airbags or a 5 star crash rating, speeding tickets or criminal infractions which all adds to health care cost would not be allowed to participate or have to pay increased premiums. Also your payment would increase with each child/dependant you have.
Maybe we should limit insurance cost of doctors, lawsuit payouts against medical professionals, ban lawyers.
Maybe when we instate universal health care insurance we can get rid of all physical money. That way the govt could track all monetary transfers, then each citizen could pay a set percentage. Say 10% for medical care (solving health care issue), 20% for taxes (solving complex tax issues), 10% to retirement (solve SS issue). It would sure make tracking illegal activities easier, oversight of companies and goverment reporting. This would also allow the govt to track your spending, buy too many DingDongs and not enough veg you health insurance premium goes up.
Remember they are talking about universal health insurance not governmental run hospitals, with govt doc, govt meds and so on. At least not yet.
From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs, Karl Marx.