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+--- Thread: Birds or Human Life (/showthread.php?tid=7851)
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Birds or Human Life - NI ELE - 09-30-2010
I understand the concern about the shotgun noise issue but in reality what they are trying to do is protect everyone that flies. although we have a large island I bet every flight that leaves or comes in to Hilo has someone that we know on board. I spoke to a friend who is a pilot and he confirmed what the Wildlife Officials are saying bird strikes do happen in Hawaii and if a flock of cattle egrets do collide with a plane taking off it will bring it down. Do we want the plane to land in the Keaukaha Community or maybe on the people swimming at 4 miles or Onekahakaha?? I personnaly would not like that to happen. I totally understand the officials for not telling the public because you would have attracted a huge crowd of spectators and perhaps activist. From my understanding if the birds would have not flied over the airfield they would have not been targeted. The wildlife officials are just looking out for the passengers and residents of Keaukaha.
RE: Birds or Human Life - Hotzcatz - 10-11-2010
It is a little surprising that they didn't trap the birds to remove them. Whether they then would kill or relocate the birds would be up to them, but that would be a lot less obvious to the general public about what they were doing. I'm not sure what sort of trap to use for egrets, though.
Kurt Wilson
RE: Birds or Human Life - mdd7000 - 10-12-2010
From today's Star Advertiser, text copied for those on dial-up:
Bird strike temporarily grounds Hawaiian Air flight from Portland
Two hundred forty-seven passengers on a Hawaiian Airlines flight from Portland finally arrived at Honolulu Airport this morning, about 14 hours late after the plane they were supposed to leave on was grounded by a bird strike.
Keone Wagner, Hawaiian Airlines spokesman, said a bird struck an inbound Hawaiian Airlines Boeing 767-300 Sunday as it approached Portland Airport.
During a pre-flight inspection the crew discovered damage to the flap covers on one of the wings and remains of a bird in one of the engines.
Wagner said the passengers, scheduled to leave at 10:15 a.m. yesterday, left on another Hawaiian jet just after midnight last night.
Crews repaired the damaged plane which was cleared for a return flight from Portland today.
[url][/url]http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/Bird_strike_temporarily_grounds_Hawaiian_Air_flight_from_Portland.html
RE: Birds or Human Life - seasidebob - 10-12-2010
I worked on Boeing engines for a long time. Hitting a bird in flight can make those multimillion dollar engines come apart like a cheap watch.
RE: Birds or Human Life - TomK - 10-12-2010
Seasidebob - sorry, have to question you on your statement. Boeing doesn't make engines and the ones they use, from various manufacturers, are tested for bird strikes. Admittedly, ingesting a large bird will likely shut an engine down and if you fly into a flock perhaps all your engines, but they don't tend to come apart after a strike. If they did we'd have airliners crashing all over the planet.
I think this whole issue about shooting birds to avoid bird strikes at Hilo airport is a bit dodgy, other airports around the world use other methods, some a little more humane, but large birds nesting and flying near an airport is certainly something that needs to be dealt with because there is a possibility they'll bring a plane down (e.g., the "Miracle on the Hudson"). On the other hand there are many bird strikes every day around the world (including Hilo Airport) and those planes, many of them Boeings, don't have their engines come apart like cheap watches.
Tom
RE: Birds or Human Life - seasidebob - 10-13-2010
quote:
Originally posted by TomK
Seasidebob - sorry, have to question you on your statement. Boeing doesn't make engines and the ones they use, from various manufacturers, are tested for bird strikes.
Sorry that was engines on Boeing planes. The engines are usually CFM's (GE engines built in France), pratt-whitney's, and Rolls. And I worked on them for about 15 years in Wichita for BMAC. Really worked on them not sat in an office.
All it takes is one ding on the first stage of the turbine will through it out of balance. Typically CFM 56's at full throttle run at 1/2 mil RPM's. A B1B came down in Texas when they hit a flock. At $50Mil for a airplane they still have not taught them to digest a duck.
Maybe coming apart like a cheap watch was overly descriptive. Cathy's favorite is when i say it is raining like a cow pissing on a flat rock. I can always make her laugh.
RE: Birds or Human Life - Obie - 10-13-2010
TomK
I am pretty sure they exhausted all other options before they started shooting.I worked as an aircraft mechanic at a major airline for 41 years at airports all over the US.Airports employ all kinds of methods to deter birds.Killing is a last resort.
At SLC they had propane cannons and a really neat natural method.There are numerous fox dens in between 2 of the runways.
These birds were roosting near the airport and the problem is, they fly to the airport to feed.The large expanses of grass at an airport are perfect for them to hunt for insects.
seasidebob
Sorry, but the B1B crash in Texas was caused by a 20 lb pelican and it missed the engines.
CFM engines are built from components from several countries, GE provides the core, SNECMA the Fan section and turbine section.
The GE plant is in Cincinnati Ohio .
I went to CFM56 school there.
What is BMAC ?
RE: Birds or Human Life - Kapohocat - 10-13-2010
I'll answer for SB - he is a scary typist - He said "BMAC (Boeing Military) was a subsidiary of the Boeing Co. but now it has been bought out by somebody else a few years ago. Wichita plant was also known by employees as the the Lazy B Ranch."
Obie - you and SB will have to chat sometime both. He also worked for Lear - in Wichita. (needless to say he and my dad didnt see eye to eye on planes as Pops worked as an engineer for Lockheed, in the Skunk Works although he started out as a mechanic. My brother flies an airbus so there used to be quite interesting conversations.)
As for the birds, I am sure it was a last resort to shoot them.
RE: Birds or Human Life - Obie - 10-13-2010
Scarebus !!
Oh No !!
If it's not Boeing I'm not going.
Puna content
I worked for Western Airlines in the 70's and flew into Hilo to work on occasion.
RE: Birds or Human Life - TomK - 10-13-2010
SB - thanks for the clarification! One interesting thing I've read is that aircraft with tail-mounted engines (like those on the 717s Hawaiian fly into Hilo) are much less susceptible to catastrophic damage from ingesting birds. As you're probably aware, though, tail-mounted engines also bring with them a lot of other problems.
One thing I forgot to mention last night is that I think the main problem with the recent bird-shooting incident is no one had any idea what was going on, and I think I'd have been a bit concerned if I'd woken up to that much gunfire!
Obie - I'm curious, out of the methods you saw to control birds, were there any you think could be used at Hilo? Have to admit I don't know what other methods they may have used before.
Tom