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+--- Thread: Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? (/showthread.php?tid=8247)
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Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? - Nucleus Hawaii - 12-29-2010
The claims of the safety of glyphosates and the even more toxics inert ingredients in Monsanto's Round-Up are based on their degradation in soil. Here in East Hawaii we have just about the most porous ground in the world. With a high percolation rate we cannot trust that at the very least these chemicals are not entering our water.
Even Monsanto declares on its own website that glyphosates will bond to "most soils" and therefore will not effect water supplies.
http://www.monsanto.com/products/Documents/glyphosate-background-materials/gly_water_bkg.pdf
But glyphosates are not the only concern when it comes to Round-Up and other herbicides. It is the so called "inert" ingredients like chemical dispersants that can prove extremely dangerous.
http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/13-new-evidence-establishes-dangers-of-roundup/
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=weed-whacking-herbicide-p
For more articles on Round-up and other glyphosate based herbicides see Nucleus Hawaii's Facebook site: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001693332533
RE: Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? - dmbwest - 12-29-2010
So what would be your next move Nucleus ???
aloha,
pog
RE: Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? - Guest - 12-29-2010
W
RE: Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? - missydog1 - 12-29-2010
Good luck communicating concerns to the gardeners of Hilo. Having lived in an old school Hilo neighborhood, I know that's how the yards get kept in neat the condition they are. I couldn't even get consideration from neighbors to watch the overspray.
The only thing that would change their ways would be if they couldn't buy it any more.
RE: Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? - dmbwest - 12-29-2010
Anyone ever check out how wide the sprayed band is right around Wailoa and Waiakea ??? Gawd ...
RIGHT INTO THE WATER
And the sprayers just shrug.
pog
RE: Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? - Kapohocat - 12-29-2010
So you suggest what to avoid. But what do you suggest people use? I am not being sarcastic in this question but what substitutes do you suggest for informational purposes?
RE: Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? - Nucleus Hawaii - 12-30-2010
" So you suggest what to avoid. But what do you suggest people use? I am not being sarcastic in this question but what substitutes do you suggest for informational purposes?"
Good question and I apologize for not presenting any alternatives before. During the past decade, with a huge surge in interests in organic gardening and agriculture, many studies have been done and are still ongoing pertaining to organic/ low to non-toxic methods of weed control. However some of the "classic" methods prove quite effective.
I personally have had great success with cardboard layering, hot mulching, and acetic acid or vinegar. Mulching need not be hot to be effective and even household 5% vinegar works on those little tiny weeds that can be so tedious and time consuming. Vinegar becomes even more effective when used in combination with orange/citrus oil and/or castor oil.
Nucleus Hawaii is in the process of finding/creating a local source for corn gluten meal which works great as a pre-emergent. Although corn gluten meal is available in some stores here in Hawaii it is shipped here and not cheap.
Although there are many commercial brands of effective organic weed killers on the market including Burnout, Natures Avenger etc., these are not to our knowledge currently stocked in stores on the Big Island and can be quite costly to ship. They are also of little interest to Nucleus Hawaii since they do not support a sustainable approach. Never the less, many of the active ingredients in these commercial products could easily be produced here like clove oil and cinnamon barks. This is also something Nucleus Hawaii is looking into.
Here are some links to methods being studied and implemented elswhere:
http://www.mhd.state.ma.us/downloads/manuals/rpt_herbicides_alternative.pdf
http://blogs.cce.cornell.edu/community-horticulture/2007/08/10/the-basics-of-alternative-herbicides/
http://newfarm.rodaleinstitute.org/depts/weeds/index.shtml
www.nysdot.gov/divisions/engineering/environmental-analysis/repository/c-02-09-5.pdf
http://www.colostate.edu/dept/sjbrc/owm/Organic%20herbicides%20HO.pdf
As for Mauka's question:
"What do you know about Escort and Cimmaron which is being used in Volcano Park to control ginger and some other plants?"
Well, Escort and Cimarron are made by Dupont and contain basically the same active ingredients.
"The half-life of metsulfuron-methyl ranges from 14 to 180 days
with a typical time of 30 days. (See Half-life text box). Breakdown
is faster in moist, warm soils. It is highly mobile in the
environment and has the potential to contaminate groundwater.
Plants rapidly take up metsulfuron-methyl at the roots and through
the leaves. It moves throughout the plant, but it does not last."
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/2A7ABA10-EDC5-481A-88BD-B9C559DB7449/0/Metsulfuron.pdf
http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld7GT000.pdf
What I can personally say pertaining to these products is that their producer is a chemical manufacturer who profits off synthetic patents and is probably not interested in the sustainability/self reliance of any community. What their environmental concerns are I don't know. But I do know that historically, the safety of many of these synthetic chemical based products are often controversial and questionable, as well as adamantly defended by their makers and propped up by their federal cronies in the EPA etc.
It is the opinion of Nucleus Hawaii that the safest substances are those that have proven their safety over a long period of time versus substances that have only been known to man or created by man within the last 100 years or so and that the best innovations will be based on such a theory.
None of us have all the answers, but perhaps collectively we can all figure out what will bring about optimal health, safety and prosperity to our communities, our aina and our future.
RE: Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? - Rob Tucker - 12-30-2010
I have to admit to being a bit of a skeptic regarding organic solutions, though that does not mean I am opposed to them by any account. It is just that the word "organic" has basically lost all meaning to me.
I am prepared to consider that products like Roundup may have negative attributes to consider. I also think that it may be true that part of the aversion to Roundup is based less on the science of the matter and more on prejudice against a large American chemical manufacturer.... and I am not a stockholder or even a fan of chemical companies and they are capable of making advertising claims that gloss over the facts. However.....
Chemicals come in all forms of most everything. A chemical is not necessarily "toxic" because it comes from a chemical manufacturer. There are many, many organic toxins too. An "organic" approach seems to casually recommend that cardboard be used as ground cover to deter weeds but no thought or mention of the chemistry of cardboard or the glues that are used in it's manufacture are ever considered or mentioned. The cardboard is expected to benignly rot and become earth. I am confident such soil would have unusual characteristics.
It may be that your cardboard solution could well be more "toxic" than Roundup in the short run or the long run.
I don't go into this here just to create confusion. More to questions assumptions.
RE: Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? - silverpenny10 - 12-30-2010
Round Up is nasty stuff. Search for the even nastier manufacturer, Monsanto. Look up Millions against Monsanto...
RE: Why not Round-Up & Glyphosates In E. Hawaii ? - MarkP - 12-30-2010
I have always heard that you should not burn glossy or colored magazine pages or other colored printed paper products because there are things like heavy metals that are in the inks that would be in either the smoke or the ashes. If so, they would pose much the same risk if used as mulch, where the metals would be concentrated in exactly the place you don't want them, your food garden. My point is not so much to say "Be careful about using colored paper for mulch" so much as it is to point out that I have never heard that caution given anywhere at any time. So, it is as Rob hints. Because cardboard mulch is considered organic, it seems to get a free pass.
I don't really think cardboard mulch is dangerous. I am just doing a reality check for the sake of consistency.