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Kama'aina rates for Cordwood masonry workshop - JohnS - 01-29-2011
Aloha,
Update on this - kama'aina discount rates now offered for first three days of this workshop, here's the new info:
CORDWOOD MASONRY!
Natural Building Technique
with Rob Roy
3 day Workshop on Cordwood Feb 19th-21st
Kama'aina rates - $60/1st day only; $180 for the entire 3day workshop
AND 1-day Earthwood Techniques Feb 22nd.
$140 for an individual, $230 for a couple.
Rob and Jaki Roy of Earthwood Building School are coming to the island (specifically Puna, near Pahoa) and offering a cordwood masonry workshop in the latter part of February. Lots more info on the Earthwood site (scroll down a bit to the "Pahoa" listing):
http://www.cordwoodmasonry.com/workshops.html
A low tech & sustainable technique. Fully permittable. Make your own sturdy walls using locally grown lumber and lime mortar! Tour a completed home and see two under construction.
At La'akea Community
Learn more and sign up at: www.cordwoodmasonry.com
or call Tracy or Biko at 808-443-4076, biko@permaculture-hawaii.com
cheers,
John S.
RE: Kama'aina rates for Cordwood masonry workshop - Rob Tucker - 01-29-2011
Well, Upstate New York maybe. They have four foot frost. Hard to imagine cord wood lasting very long in our termite and rot environment.
RE: Kama'aina rates for Cordwood masonry workshop - hotinhawaii - 01-29-2011
I'm with Rob, I don't think the idea can work here. The wood would have to be treated to be permitted, if it could be permitted. Even then, with Hibor treatment it will rot quickly once it gets wet. Also, it seems like a lot of work for a house that doesn't need much insulation here.
RE: Kama'aina rates for Cordwood masonry workshop - KeaauRich - 01-29-2011
Well, after the termites and rot do their thing, you'd have an interesting looking structure with lots of natural ventilation...
RE: Kama'aina rates for Cordwood masonry workshop - DanielP - 01-29-2011
If we assume the best, perhaps the issues have answers. So, the question is posed.
RE: Kama'aina rates for Cordwood masonry workshop - JohnS - 01-29-2011
Aloha,
I figured the "no can" folks would pop up on this one... :-)
I'm just announcing for friends hosting the workshop. And, I'll reply anyhow.
Personally I agree to some extent that cordwood masonry's multiple benefits don't all apply here. And, it makes perhaps more sense than the earthship up Mountain View way...!
There's already one full cordwood masonry wall building I've seen, up somewhere between Ola'a and Mt. View IIRC. It had somewhat inadequate eaves but was doing OK nonetheless after a couple years. It was almost all 'ohi'a cordwood IIRC. Some of it hadn't been dried long enough and shrinkage was causing a few small gaps here and there, as the owner acknowledged.
The cordwood masonry that will be done in this project is only a portion of the whole structure, for enclosing some first-floor outer walls of a two-level structure. It will sit, as it should, on a 2+ ft. high foundation of rock-from-the-site wall built using lime mortar (far less embedded energy than cement mortar). So part of their reason is the aesthetic of it - the rock wall and cordwood masonry combo can look really nice.
It will be single-wall only since as you say insulation is not a major issue (they are at 1200 ft. but it only gets chilly, not truly cold). Wood by itself is a poor insulator anyhow - in cold climates cordwood masonry is built with a gap between inner and outer wall which is filled with insulation such as sawdust or manufactured cellulose fill.
Most of the cordwood will be 'ohi'a (from standing dead trees on the land primarily - neither they nor I would condone cutting any significant amount of live 'ohi'a for cordwood) and guava/waiwi (also from the land). They are trying one other wood but I forget what at the moment.
Melocia would be good to test as cordwood - it's naturally insect resistant (as is jackfruit) - but they don't have any big Melocia on their land. However in general melocia (like guava/waiwi) is an abundant local building (and general biomass) resource used successfully as polewood in alternative structures - much lighter and easier to work than 'ohi'a or guava/waiwi.
With a good "hat and boots" (eaves and foundation) the guava and 'ohi'a at least ought to last just fine. That is, proper design of foundation and roof sees to it that the wood will not be wet for any length of time and seldom wet at all.
On the one hand, yes, it is labor intensive. On the other hand it is relatively quite frugal in cost of materials when one can use local sources of cordwood. So if you have time but not much money, it makes more sense, as do most low- or non-industrial alternative building methods.
If you ever bother to think about the amount of labor (machinery/manufacturing, energy, transportation, environmental destruction) behind just one stud-length 2x4 that you casually throw on the rack at Home Despot, and then extrapolate that to a whole stick-framed sh*t-rocked house...I suspect local cordwood masonry probably has a lot less embedded energy and environmental consequences.
In this climate I mostly prefer lighter feeling structures - I doubt I would ever do cordwood masonry myself here. And, I'm glad these folks are doing this experiment. What they learn can benefit other people who aren't willing to try something different until someone else takes the risks for them.
cheers,
John S.
RE: Kama'aina rates for Cordwood masonry workshop - MarkP - 01-29-2011
I know a guy who built a small chord-wood shack on South Kopua Rd, to stay in while he was building his larger house. It had a timber frame with the chord-wood masonry as infill. Months later some of the logs had dried and shrunk, leaving gaps, but nothing you couldn't live with. I haven't spoken with him lately so I don't know how it is holding up. I drive by the place frequently and it hasn't fallen down yet. I had all the same doubts voiced here. Frankly the place is only a couple of years old, too soon to make a determination about longevity.
RE: Kama'aina rates for Cordwood masonry workshop - Rob Tucker - 01-29-2011
I knew we would hear from you John. Your input is always appreciated. I'm certainly not against anyone who wants to take it up. Kinda hard to picture locals on a budget spending $400 for a three day course or $140 for one day. But hey, who knows, might be the beginning of a whole new style of substandard housing for Hawaii.
It is pretty though. I've seen it real time in the east.
RE: Kama'aina rates for Cordwood masonry workshop - JohnS - 02-10-2011
Aloha,
A few more notes on this...
The Kopua road cordwood cabin, if it's the same one I've seen, was actually started at a workshop they did in 2005, so it's been testing the potential for more than "a couple of years." If not, well, there's one somewhere near there that's been there 5+ years. Roy also said that cook pine worked out well as wall material on that project.
The shrinkage is relatively normal and can be handled (if necessary/desired) by re-pointing the joints where it is significant enough to bother.
Shrinkage is better than swelling, once built - as Roy puts it, shrinkage is a cosmetic issue whereas swelling is a structural issue (it will crack the masonry matrix and damage the wall's integrity).
So the aim is for wood that is reasonably dry, but not so dry that it will swell up enough to do damage once in place.
Re termites, apparently there is almost no wood they will attack via end grain, and cordwood masonry walls have only end grain exposed. This is Roy's observation over 30+ years doing this in a lot of different climates and locations around the world that have termites of various kinds.
As to a new style for Puna...perhaps a few here and there...:-) I wouldn't call it substandard though, just unpermitted. As you say, it can be quite lovely, and more affordable (and aesthetic) than "standard" housing for those with more time than money.
RE: Kama'aina rates for Cordwood masonry workshop - Peter Epperson - 02-11-2011
Hale Ohia Road in Volcano Village is named for the Ohia log cabin built there more than 100 years ago. It's still there right beside the road.