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+--- Thread: On the roundabout (/showthread.php?tid=8972)
On the roundabout - PaulW - 07-01-2011
Story on roundabouts:
"The simpler British version is thought to have first arrived in the US in 1990, in Nevada, and it is these which are now proliferating. California has built nearly 200 in the last two or three years."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13863498
Sorry I haven't been paying attention, but is there still any talk of putting a roundabout on Highway 130?
RE: On the roundabout - Rob Tucker - 07-01-2011
There is an intention at this time to put a roundabout at the intersection of Kahakai and Hwy. 130.
RE: On the roundabout - PaulW - 07-01-2011
That's the most complicated intersection there is on H130, right? Baptism of fire!
I've seen roundabouts handle 8 incoming roads, not easy for traffic lights.
RE: On the roundabout - james weatherford - 07-01-2011
The plan is for (at least) three roundabouts along Hwy 130:
+ Kahakai
+ Old Pahoa Road
+ Ainaloa.
Some of the other intersections are scheduled later for "intersection treatments" either signals or roundabouts.
RE: On the roundabout - rusty h - 07-03-2011
Roundabouts are good where needed. We installed three in a very conjested area where at certain times it was a free for all. Our only problem is when ice builds up cars tend to slide around a little. No problem for you in Hawaii.
A funny thought would be if aloha kicks in and everyone lets the other have the right away and thus traffic stops.
peace
RE: On the roundabout - DTisme - 07-03-2011
[quote]Originally posted by PaulW
Story on roundabouts:
"The simpler British version is thought to have first arrived in the US in 1990..."
I thought this was funny bc I grew up in Washington, D.C., where roundabouts go back to L'Enfant's original 1789 design. I was told as a kid it was meant to confuse the enemy in an attack, but methinks it's to keep traffic flowing. Of course, once traffic gets to a certain density, it can quickly turn to mayhem. Add to that tourists who aren't used to them... We used to joke in DC that it must be summer bc the circles were nuts. (i.e., the tourists were in town)
Unless you are used to them, they can be quite confusing, as people unfamiliar with them often stop before entering, or worse, stop and wait until traffic has cleared the circle. There's etiquette about how to enter, move over a lane if you're not "getting off" at the next spoke, etc.
Good God, there are people here who assume other drivers are trying to cut them off when they are trying to zipper merge (see other threads) -- I fear they'll think someone entering a roundabout from, say, Ainaloa, is butting in.
Personally, I like them, but I'm just sayin'... YOU HAVE TO BE MORE ALERT to deal with them.
RE: On the roundabout - hotinhawaii - 07-03-2011
Here is proof that roundabouts will be a nightmare: "Good God, there are people here who assume other drivers are trying to cut them off when they are trying to zipper merge (see other threads)"
Though the lane is clearly marked "Merge Left," there are those who think the correct and polite thing to do is zipper merge! It doesn't say "zipper merge" or "alternate merge." The road markings clearly indicate to merge to the left, and yet, despite clear postings, people just make up their own rules.
I can imagine in a roundabout there are those who will think it is most polite to stop (it isn't) while they get rear-ended because the person behind them sees no reason for them to stop to let someone enter (there isn't).
If people don't understand the concept of merging (and clearly very many do not), there is no hope for roundabouts. It will be a mess! They can put up a hundred signs and people will just continue to make their own rules.
RE: On the roundabout - David Shaw - 07-03-2011
I've been in many roundabouts in Europe, Asia, and Mexico. They work well imo. So I suggest we can make them work here, too with pre-opening education. Meetings at the schools and community centers with video, handouts, and demos using bodies role-playing as cars. Website(s) using 'cartoons' and live videos. After the opening, say the first couple weeks of commute times, get volunteer firemen, off-duty police, service clubs, etc. standing at the entrances and waving vehicles in, bullhorns with lane change instructions. Whatever it takes to get the first-timers acclimated and accustomed to the procedure. After that, word of mouth will help. All much cheaper and faster than a signal install. Sure, there will be some accidents, but good prep will go a long way toward cutting down on the frequency.
My $1.95 (due to inflation),
-dwajs
RE: On the roundabout - james weatherford - 07-03-2011
quote:
Originally posted by DTisme
[quote] in Washington, D.C., where roundabouts go back to L'Enfant's original 1789 design.
No, those ARE NOT ROUNDABOUTS IN D.C.
Those are TRAFFIC CIRCLES and NOT the same as roundabouts.
Design of splitter islands and yield on entry are basic differences.
Same for the "merge" bit above -- that IS NOT what happens at a roundabout.
//////////
... try these links to learn what a roundabout actually is...
www.alaskaroundabouts.com/index.html
www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/fall95/p95a41.htm
www4.nationalacademies.org/trb/onlinepubs.nsf/web/NCHRPSynthWeb)
www.tfhrc.gov/safety/00068.htm
www.dot.state.ny.us/roundabouts/howto.html
www.engr.orst.edu/~taekrtha/round.html
www.abnaengineering.com/abna
www.ksu.edu/roundabouts/
www.tfhrc.gov/safety/00068.htm
www.akcelik.com.au/SIDRA/roundabouts.htm
www.ksu.edu/roundabouts
www.roundabouts.net/roundabouts.html
www.azdot.gov/CCPartnerships/Roundabouts/PDF/Traffic_Speed.pdf
www.dot.state.az.us/CCPartnerships/Roundabouts/faq.asp
www.ite.org/traffic/documents/tcir0019.pdf
www.ci.davis.ca.us/pw/traffic/roundabouts.cfm
depts.washington.edu/hiprc/practices/topic/pedestrians/environment.html
www.citebc.ca/No95_Roundabout.html
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3734/is_200209/ai_n9139900
www.walkinginfo.org/de/curb1.cfm?codename=16c&CM_maingroup=Intersection%20Design
www.sdearthtimes.com/et0501/et0501s12.html
www.apwa.net/Publications/Reporter/ReporterOnline/index.asp?DISPLAY=ISSUE&ISSUE_DATE=072000&ARTICLE_NUMBER=130
www.insurancejournal.com/magazines/southcentral/2000/08/14/features/22640.htm
RE: On the roundabout - hotinhawaii - 07-03-2011
I know what a roundabout is. I grew up with them in NJ and watched them proliferate in MD. As for the merge issue, I was comparing the confusion about merging with what you call yield on entry. My point was that if drivers can not follow a merge sign, they will probably struggle with yielding also. I know what happens in a roundabout, I have driven through them hundreds of times and am very familiar with people who stop to let incoming cars into the circle nearly causing accidents. I have been behind those people. When they were installed in Baltimore, they did as DavidShaw suggested: a huge public education campaign for the first couple of months. It certainly helped.
I am not set against roundabouts. I am concerned that they will not be engineered well here.