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Thanks for attempting to to understand my point. I understand the sensitive environment Hawaii has. I however also understand that when someone advocates the jailing and fining (violence and extortion) of another individual for moving some form of biology from one geographical location to another, is anti-social, especially when the people calling for the violence are not directly harmed in anyway by this individuals actions; lets add to that, the fact the this(these) person/people advocating this treatment are not willing to participate in the act themselves, again much easier when someone else is doing the dirty work. Also consider, as a human how you are treated in being processed through the prison "system", this is a G rated board and we do not need to get into that.
me personally, i avoid as much interface as possible with the system and have only had 2 tickets in my life. my point of view is that of a caring human that does not want to see "for the greater good", an individual put through the system for an "Crime" that has no Corpus Dilecti. You see "the greater good" argument is a fallacy that can be destroyed with a logical conversation in 1 question. We are individuals, and if we are clear thinking we should not ask "Society" to do something that as individuals we have no right to do, namely Violence and Extortion.
Yes, what i say might seem confusing or strange to people but people dont stick to FACTS, they make conjecture after conjecture, and even perform the old AD hominem (and the person that attacked my obvoius mistake in an earlier post they themselves know is basically the same thing.) instead of understanding or having discourse, names get called. I started posting to this thread because certain people directly advocated violence and extortion and cant even answer my basic question "Should a service or product be provided at the barrel of a gun?" and if the answer is no, please explain the government to me. and if the answer is yes? well now you know why i dont put my REAL NAME on here!
and if i have made typos.... im not attempting a scholarly work on this board, just the exchange of ideas.
quote:
Originally posted by mailesomaha
I thought 808 must have had past experience like Rodney King or something and that 808s really knowledgeable about some technical things.
It takes some thought to really understand what you're trying to say 808. Maybe a little background information on why you take such a strong stand against enforcement; do you want fireants in your stove? And if there's a better system than the one that exists, what would it look like? This is rhetorical, but if you wish......
808, what this sounds like to me: "Blah, blah, blah, blah, more blah, blah, blah."
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Yesh Offisher,
I yam driving and drunk on my ash, but I hafen't harmed anyone. Yooo can't arresht me, there ish no corpiss delictish!
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808 You wrote...
I understand the sensitive environment Hawaii has. I however also understand that when someone advocates the jailing and fining (violence and extortion) of another individual for moving some form of biology from one geographical location to another, is anti-social, especially when the people calling for the violence are not directly harmed in anyway by this individuals actions; lets add to that, the fact the this(these) person/people advocating this treatment are not willing to participate in the act themselves, again much easier when someone else is doing the dirty work. Also consider, as a human how you are treated in being processed through the prison "system", this is a G rated board and we do not need to get into that.
I rarely chime in here, but enjoy reading all the opinions from time to time......
Some people will NEVER understand your point of view.
Like you, I can not understand the hypocrisy of the "animal rights" advocates. The #1 invasive species to Hawaii is the Human, and I have yet to hear of anyone willing to leave Hawaii for the good of the Islands. Save the Whales, but kill them damn ants!!!......... I believe that if a certain species is in danger of extinction, the BEST scenario would be to start breeding it as a food source or a potential pet. Why are some species "off limits"? Would it not be better to breed endangered animal as pets? I understand some animal are lousy candidates as pets (elephant, tiger etc) but surely most smaller species could survive as "captive breed"...they are even breeding the Tridacna (killer) Clam in the Marshal Islands now and is no longer threatened??????
Also FYI.... the baby Tortoise in the photo I saw is a land animal that doesn't eat shrimp, but plants, and would hardly be a threat to Hawaii, as they need to dig deep burrows for their dens, and there is very little soil that could accommodate them here in Hawaii. The Mongoose wood make short work of any of these slow moving creatures. The photo showed a groop of hatchlings that were probably breed for sale in the pet trade, which would protect the species from ever becoming extinct. I have seen situations like this play out before with nothing but BAD results for the animals in question........
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Here is a link to an article about hawaii's vulnerable biodiversity.
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Humans can not "save" the planet. The earth is more dynamic than we can even imagine.
I love the line from the article..."To eradicate the gall wasps, scientists have no choice but to introduce another species of wasp to the Hawaiian islands"...Humans to the rescue!!
The Hawaiian Islands were isolated for a long time and many species are unique....If Humans want to save these species, they should "plant" them on other islands or main lands to insure their survival. This would truly give the threatened species a fighting chance at survival. To think that Hawaii can be kept in some sort of time warp is crazy! Just like the residents of New Orleans think they can keep their city from ever flooding......It is a noble cause, but what is the point...Keep Hawaii the same, or protect certain species?
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I would be perfectly willing to hand out fines to people trying to bring invasive or otherwise illegal species into Hawaii, why not? It's not my job but if I was looking for one I'd gladly do that. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
"Save the Whales, but kill them damn ants!!!" What's the problem with that? One is invasive, the other isn't.
The solution to the spreading of invasive species isn't to spread them even more.
Nobody is attempting a scholarly work on this forum, but it would be much appreciated if people could take just a few seconds to check what they've typed before they post it.
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I must not be able to articulate my view, unless I am direct and to the point....
I think ALL life, both Plants and Animals, have the right to survive anywhere on this planet.
No single species has more importance than an other....It seems only the cute, fuzzy, or interesting get attention. ( Paris Hilton and Tom Cruse come to mind)
I think it is arrogant for Humans to think that we have some sort of power over nature. That we can stop the inevitable!
We (Humans) are also part of nature, and as such, our presence here on this planet WILL have consequences. We should treat ALL life with respect.
I happen to believe in GOD. I believe he is in control. I believe I should do my best to protect ALL life. Take only what I need.
What I find interesting about conversations with those that do NOT believe in GOD, is that they believe in evolution, but somehow they think the evolutionary process has stopped, and without HUMAN INTERVENTION all will be lost, and It is all our fault.
I should keep this brief, but I want to suggest something....This is something I do around my house.
I found that I don't have to kill ants.....All I have to do is provide them food OUTSIDE and they never come in my house...Win Win. I can live with them outside and they don't have to die. (I don't think I could kill all of them anyway)
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Oh yea and one LAST thing....
What is the name of the guy or gal that gets to decide weather something is invasive or not I would like to talk to him or her.......If I am not mistaken the Hawaiian Islands should just be Volcanic rock and EVERYTHING ELSE is invasive......but then again we are back to that question of "NATURAL" and I guess either Humans are not part of nature or they are, and someone must control their every move......like maybe big brother
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"I think ALL life, both Plants and Animals, have the right to survive anywhere on this planet."
So if you see a rat in your living room, you do what exactly?
You don't think that bringing a new species, let's say poisonous brown snakes, into Hawaii is a bad idea?
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