01-18-2015, 03:03 PM
It is telling that people who were both downwind and upwind during the event, reported similar symptoms. How could this be?
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Puna Geothermal Fined for Violation
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01-18-2015, 03:35 PM
Ironyak Is this the part of your link you wanted us to read?
" In geothermal areas, such as Pohoiki, however, hydrogen sulfide is essentially the only sulfur gas emitted. Hydrogen sulfide, sometimes called "sewer gas", is a toxic gas that irritates the eyes, nose, and throat and has a rotten egg odor." They are talking about natural emissions. 
01-18-2015, 05:06 PM
quote: i find it difficult to have confidence in this link as a reliable data collection source. and it's not difficult to imagine the data collection could easily be tainted by a number of errors in a controlled accurate intake of data. a year or two ago i was approached in downtown Hilo to take part in a survey on the health effects of vog. i was initially open to the approach, but my distinct impression was that of being highly unprofessional and of a source left vague. i sensed agenda, probable cherry picking. it was sketchy enough i declined to take part after inquiring and then taking a look at the questions. chances are no relation to Punapono studies, but it was a reminder to be mindful of misinformation, whether by perceived good intentions or not.
01-19-2015, 02:08 AM
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/hac/pha/pha.asp?docid=1036&pg=0
Conclusions: (1) The concentrations of hydrogen sulfide detected in air atmonitoring stations in residential areas near the PunaGeothermal Venture do not pose a public health hazard. (2) The HDOH emergency level of 1,000 ppb hydrogen sulfide forevacuation in the event of an unplanned release isprotective of pubic health. "Ambient air concentrations of hydrogen sulfide in residentialareas near the PGV are typically less than 1 ppb. These levelsare similar to naturally-occurring, background levels (0.11 to0.33 ppb) that have been detected in ambient air at otherlocations [3]. There is no toxicological evidence that chronicexposure to these levels of hydrogen sulfide would have anadverse impact on public health." Just call me Mike
Me ka ha`aha`a,
Mike
01-19-2015, 03:11 AM
Civil Beat - A faulty pressure release valve caused 39 pounds of hydrogen sulfide to be released
VancouverIslander - Meanwhile, Kilauea (all sources) is currently putting out 200 tonnes a day ironyak - The 200 tonnes a day from Kilauea is for SO2 (sulfur dioxide) not H2S (hydrogen sulfide). Different chemicals geochem - correct - SO2 and H2S are different compounds with different Analysis of the eruptive gases at Pu'u O'o have shown that H2S is also present in those gases at a rate of about 5% or so of SO2 - meaning that Kilauea is producing roughly 100 tons per day of H2S ironyak - Sulfur dioxide emissions from all East Rift Zone vents was about 200 tonnes per day. As for volcanic venting of H2S, USGS has said that most of that is quickly decomposed by reaction with SO2 unlike geothermal areas. Obie - They are talking about natural emissions. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/arch...08_25.html "In geothermal areas, such as Pohoiki, however, hydrogen sulfide is essentially the only sulfur gas emitted. Hydrogen sulfide, sometimes called "sewer gas", is a toxic gas that irritates the eyes, nose, and throat and has a rotten egg odor. It is an insidious poison, because although our noses can initially detect H2S at very low concentrations, under prolonged exposure to higher levels of the gas, our sense of smell may become fatigued. Because of this fatigue, we may no longer be able to detect H2S but could still suffer from its effects. Furthermore, our ability to distinguish between moderate and very high concentrations of H2S is limited." Sorry to rehash, but trying to be clear. Agreed Obie, USGS is talking about natural H2S emissions "in special areas like Sulphur Banks or the lower east rift zone geothermal area, generous amounts of ground water effectively scrub the sulfur dioxide, and hydrogen sulfide is the dominant sulfur gas." http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/arch...01_27.html So can we agree that H2S is not SO2, H2S from Kilauea's summit vents is quickly neutralized, and that H2S is the primary gas seen in geothermal areas?
01-19-2015, 12:08 PM
Ironyak - there appears to have been a typo - or at the very least, a numbers-conflict in the 200 tons per day you cite. If you look at that same report, under the heading Summit Observations, you will see the statement cited by Vancouver Islander: "The emission rate of sulfur dioxide ranged from around 4,500 to 7,600 tonnes/day during the week ending January 13." Clearly a much higher number than 200 tons per day you cite - and I understood that it was about a 50/50 split between the summit and ERZ sources.
Your statement: quote: No, not agreed. l looked at that Volcano Watch you noted and the claims there don’t match the known chemistry of H2S and SO2 - which can quite happily coexist for days at a time together. The Klaus reaction, one of the primary manufacturing methods for elemental sulfur reacts these two gases together, but require a catalyst to make the reaction work effectively (even at high temperature). It is known that these two gases rapidly react together in the presence of liquid water – and it’s likely that this reaction will consume some of the H2S present in the eruptive gases in a condensing plume but, to my knowledge, no one has actually made the effort to determine what fraction is lost to that process. The other volcano watch article you noted is equally off base with the chemistry of the eruptive and geothermal emissions (natural and man-made). The relative ratio of SO2 and H2S in the volcanic gases is related to which sulfur compound is more stable at a given temperature (as well as the kinetics of the conversion from one to the other). Sulfur dioxide is the more stable compound in the high temperature eruptive gases; hydrogen sulfide is the more stable compound in equilibrium with the other gases at lower temperatures. When we have an eruption in lower Puna, we’ll see plenty of sulfur dioxide – water or not. quote: Certainly can agree that H2S and SO2 are different compounds - and that they have different physiologic effects. And, as the Bates study showed (and the CDC report cited also substantiates), that the levels of exposure to H2S detected around the PGV plant, have, to date, posed no health threat to the community.
01-19-2015, 01:16 PM
Curious how often H2S is described by geo apologists in terms of nuisance, such as "toxic gas that irritates the eyes, nose, and throat and has a rotten egg odor," while omitting the tiny fact that it's deadly poisonous.
01-19-2015, 02:19 PM
Everyone wrap your minds around this. The Iceland Deep Drilling Project, while drilling several 5000m holes in an attempt to harness the heat in the volcanic bedrock below the surface of Iceland, struck a pocket of magma at 2,100m. Being only the third time in recorded history that magma had been reached, IDDP decided to invest in the hole, naming it IDDP-1. This you can see is 2009 So if they were the third who were the other two that would be the next logical question right? No better yet who was the first right? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...ident.html §13-183-54 General terms. (a) The operator under a lease shall conduct all operations in a manner that conforms to the most prudent practices and engineering principles in use in the industry. Operations shall be conducted in a manner that protects the natural resources including without limitation, geothermal resources, and to obtain efficiently the maximum ultimate recovery of geothermal resources, consistent with other uses of the land with minimal impact on the environment. Operations shall be conducted with due regard for the safety and health of employees. The operator shall promptly remove from the leased lands or store, in an orderly manner, all scraps or other materials not in use and shall notify the chairperson of all accidents within twenty-four hours and submit a written report within thirty days. Was this done? That's a good question. And if so can we see it?
01-19-2015, 03:01 PM
quote: and it occurs naturally in geothermally active areas, such as Pohoiki !
01-19-2015, 03:57 PM
quote: Obie do you know the ratio of naturally occurring H2S to the amount added at the site? |
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