Alternatives to Mauna Kea

[kalakoa]

If you build it, they will not come.

More like "if they come, they will be shot."

Totalitarian government has its downsides, but they sure know how to get things done...

[Guest]

Beepbeep, love your obvious passion for astronomy and life. Yes you are right about the incredible opportunity to host such a manmade marvel or wonder. I have a concern though to why many other states or countries aren't lining up or showing interest in taking over such a project( if it falls through here in the islands)?. Maunakea is already the astronomy capital of the world with or without this TMT telescope. Maybe the astronomers could show respect to the host culture for a change and allow them their voice and reasons?
Astronomers can not be without a heart to see the tears and pain being caused within the host communities young and old, by the rubber stamped, pushed, or proposed further development upon their sacred aina. Astronomers should have a constructive mind to be aware of the impact they are making to the summit of Maunakea's environment. And finally Astronomer's could or should have the courage to speak up against their employer's when THEY see, feel, or know things are being done wrong or illegally?. I fail to read or see many of these qualities within our astronomy community here on PW or on the summit for calm and peace(maunakea).

P.S. Sorry to hear about all the worries in your state with the spills and fracking issues. A couple noticable differences between your state and these islands is the spirit of living, or power of the people (majority). Jmo, it should not be underestimated or disrespected. California is a state of wantabe transplants looking for wealth of untold proportions, where as Hawaii was and is a large family(Ohana) living, working, and tending to its land today for the keiki promise of tomorrow in different ways. Sure glad I don't live in a city like L.A, N.Y, or D.C. Or live in a state like California,Florida, or Texas. This protest, stand, or rising up from the good people with Aloha as to defend what is sacred to them and many, makes me proud to be from The Big island of Hawaii.

[PunaMauka2]

Let's count those pearls.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

why many other states or countries aren't lining up or showing interest in taking over such a project( if it falls through here in the islands)?.

Yes, why not Nebraska with its 14,000 foot mountain peaks?
Or Southern California with it's dark skies due to only 10's of millions of people living there?
Or maybe Alaska, because a 14,000 foot mountain in the tropics just doesn't get cold enough for those cold hearted astronomers?
Or Vegas, where they could spin the dome and see what they discover?

Pearls, indeed.

[PunaMauka2]

i thought Gypsy69 might enjoy this as a potential source to spice up the protest beat poetry project:

http://www.waronwethepeople.com/tmt-and-the-military/

"TMT and the Military:
Gearing Up for World War III.
What Most People Want to Know
to Understand the Fraud, Crime,
and Treason Allegedly Ongoing
on the World’s Tallest Mountain, Mauna Kea

by

Sherri Kane and Leonard G. Horowitz1"

[TomK]

I think it's so disappointing that in a thread where an awful lot of information has been posted about telescope site selection, Gypsy continues to go on about Mt Graham and Mt Fuji as alternative sites. It smacks of laziness and an unwillingness to address reality, and instead resorts to making stuff up in the hope it will stick. Now he wants astronomers to report illegal activity by the observatories. What illegal activity?

Mt Graham: Not high enough to carry out reliable thermal infrared observations and therefore can't compete with Mauna Kea for a lot of the work the TMT want to do.

Mt Fuji: No local infrastructure on the mountain, snow covered for many months of the year, high average humidity, dangerously low temperatures and average winds of over 25-mph with some storms bringing 200-mph winds. Oh, it's also an active volcano and in a region that's prone to very large earthquakes. Perfect place to build an astronomical observatory.

[dakine]

It smacks of laziness and an unwillingness to address reality..

I think that line fits perfectly with the way the pro TMT crowd on PW goes on about the Hawaiians.

[TomK]

Dakine wrote:

"I think that line fits perfectly with the way the pro TMT crowd on PW goes on about the Hawaiians."

PW is a collection of individuals with their own opinions. Nice how you now try to create a divide. I'm obviously pro-TMT, so perhaps you'd like to provide examples of how I keep going on about the Hawaiians?

[Seeb]

Religion And Science never have mixed well

[TomK]

I'm not sure where you're going with that comment, seeb. Religion and science are two completely separate things. Yes, they don't mix, but don't think this explains everything going on right now on Mauna Kea. If that was the only thing going on, things would be a little less complicated.