New gut and switch HB1585 MK again, and worse

[Old Croc]

I don't understand the opposition's logic. New telescopes will help warn Mother Russia of an impact from space.

[punaticbychoice]

Old Croc @12:57:40 04/11/2018-
When the TMT goes to the Canary Islands, one of the things the Spanish will do
is to see if there is a formula floating in space that will allow them to revive
General Franco.[]
Or make Kai Kahale an honorary Spanish noble or whatever for his services to Spain (or the EU).[:I]

[TomK]

I guess they could make him king of Catalonia - he'll fit in nicely!

I know some members of the Institute for Astronomy are attending tonight's meeting in Honolulu so hope to get some feedback, and hopefully, rainyjim will be able to provide some soon. There will likely be updates on the "we support TMT" Facebook page as well:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/WeSupportTMT/

There's also an interesting update there about Kahele's gut-and-replace bill and how it may have violated Senate rules.

[rainyjim]

So.

Meeting started at 7pm promptly with a circle of handholding and pule.

Senator Kahele gave a 2hr lecture of the history of astronomy use on the summit of Mauna Kea and the various state and federal agencies and studies performed since.

Only mention to legislation given during the entire lecture was the bill numbers and brief summary...

HB 1985 - Form a new Mauna Kea management agency
HB 1585 - federal forensic audit and building restriction
HB 1767 - 4wd requirement on access road

There was no mention of any plans on how to improve the current problems he describes Mauna Kea currently faces under the current management (OMKM) and regulatory (DLNR) bodies.

At 9pm the lecture portion ended and we had 30 minutes for questions.
Maybe 5 questions were asked total.
With the exception of an IFA member all of the persons selected to ask questions to the Senator shared his ethnic background.
The Senstor bluntly and explicitly refused to answer 3 of the 5 questions asked one of which being if he supported the TMT or not.
The majority of the question and answer time was spent explaining the speakers surname, familial connections and area they grew up (in much more detail) most never actually asked questions to the Senator but instead espoused their opinion(s) to the audience.
The Senator closed the Q&A session by giving the floor to Walter Ritte (Hawaiian activist) who spoke in detail of the TMT being a turning point in the revival of the Hawaiian culture and of his personal friends/connections to the Menehune night marchers who have 'drawn a line in the sand' and would under no circumstances allow the TMT to be built - alluding to resorting to violence several times.

After much applause at 9:30pm we joined hands in circle again and another pule was held.

I was able to personally ask the Senator about meeting with OMKM and why he felt the the OMKM was not capable of rectifying the complaints he has made. In brief, he does not hold any confidence in the individuals who compromise the agency or their ability to bring about change.

I will say personally I was impressed with Senator Kahele in nearly every respect. I respect him more now than I did before the meeting and can honestly say he has changed my perspective about Mauna Kea in general. That said I still support the construction of the TMT and the $1 observatory leases; and still do not support HB 1985 or HB 1585 - I supported HB 1767 before the meeting and still support it.

I do think serious change of the management and regulatory/enforcement bodies of Mauna Kea is warranted, but do not believe HB 1585 or HB1985 would elicit such change. I would also like to point out that I truly believe Senator Kahele is acting in good faith and is a good person - I am sure we could all be friends with him; in addition, he seemed to be close friends with Dan Meisenzahl. Despite disagreeing with the gut and replace tactic and the content of these two bills I might even consider giving Senator Kahele my vote in the future depending on his opponent(s) - we could do much worse (I have personally met the majority of our state house reps and senators).

I did take some pictures of the presentation's slides I felt were pertinent as well as notes which I may upload to imgur if there is interest. That is all that comes to mind currently I've been up for about 18hrs so maybe I will have more to add tomorrow after some rest.

[TomK]

Thanks, rainyjim. Looking forward to what you have to post tomorrow after some rest. I am certainly interested.

[randomq]

So he skirted the topic of the bills, refused to answer questions, and invited someone espousing violence to speak after him... But you think he's a great guy we should be friends with?

[punaticbychoice]

randomq @ 05:56:41 04/12/2018-

My sentiments and observations too.
Kai Kahale might be "Mr. Personality", and apparently is friends and allied
to some of the most extreme "independence" advocates among our population.
And those elements, like Mr Ritte, threaten violence if they don't get their
way on the astronomy issue.
As was said before, cultural nationalism gone mad, aloha turned on its head.

[geochem]

Have to say, I completely agree p-b-c - and Walter Ritte has used violence against Molokai Ranch in the past, and gotten away with it... The upshot being that there is minimal economic activity on the island and, for a while, people were commuting to Maui by ferry to find work - that recently went bust, I believe.

But Kai's whole narrative is BS. Has UH management of the summit been perfect? No it hasn't. Is it any worse than any other state or county agency in their management of their respective resources? No, it's been a damned sight better - has UH had the support of these other agencies in their management responsibilities and resolving problems - not hardly. Will the new management authority do any better than UH has done up to now? Anyone care to place a bet on that outcome?

And as a bonus question, will UH's ability to bring in grant funds and support local students be improved by the new management authority? NFL...

And if Kai Kahele sincerely believes that a new management authority, with revenues bypassing UH on their way to OHA will improve the situation, then he isn't smart enough to deserve my support - no matter how well intended and sincere he may be.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

with revenues bypassing UH on their way to OHA will improve the situation

If the plan to change oversight of Mauna Kea involves OHA in any shape or form, Kahele might want to focus on OHA first. Gut some bills which will reform the problems at OHA, or replace the board at OHA with better managers - - then use that as an example of how management on Mauna Kea could work.

“Fiction reveals truth that reality obscures.”
#8213; Ralph Waldo Emerson

[rainyjim]

So, Kahele did a good job of exposing why OHA gets/wants their 20% cut. Basically it's written into law. OHA gets 20% of profits derived from public land trusts (ceded lands). Not saying this is a good thing, but I agree with following the law until we change it... whether it is changed or not it is clear OHA has a lot to address in terms of improving their ability to help the average native Hawaiian.

My positive remarks about Kahele were to remind everyone that he is only human, like all of us, and our neighbor. We have nothing to gain by sowing discord among eachother and everything to gain by working to understand eachother's varying viewpoints and finding compromises on disputed issues. Just because someone does one thing you disagree with does not mean you disagree with everything they do.