Rainwater Is No Longer Safe to Drink

[knieft]

There be new tech on the filter front. We have two residences (one off grind, one on) with the Quantum systems. Cheaper (TCO) and more energy efficient than RO or typical UV. I’m any case better than simply using the 20 micron and 5 micron filters we only used before.

Lasts likely more than 10 years with our usage. I know nothing specific about effectiveness against the topic of this thread, admittedly, but will ask Todd about it next time I see him, and report if anyone is interested.

Does anyone have effectiveness info on same for RO and/or UV (of which there are a few levels of systems, if I understand correctly).

Available locally in Pahoa:

https://www.tiloscleanwater.com/about-us.html

And probably other places.

Cheers,
Kirt

[TomK]

All of the articles used the term, "worldwide".  The ultimate source is indeed included in the original post.  Here's a direct link:

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.2c02765

Other posters in this thread who know more about these things than I do have suggested that the filters used in catchment systems should eliminate the plastic.  What's not clear about all of this?  What we all need to "do" is eliminate single-use plastic.

And in that article, it says:

"Nevertheless, based on the four PFAAs considered here, it is concluded that in many areas inhabited by humans the planetary boundary for PFAS has been exceeded based on the levels in rainwater, surface water and soil, with all of these media being widely contaminated above recently proposed guideline levels."

Now, I just did skim the article, but I don't think "many" equates to everywhere, which is why I'm asking if rainwater here is safe to drink. for instance, if the water here tests the same as those in Antarctica or the Tibetan Plateau, then I would agree there's a risk but those places only exceed the most stringent guidelines.

In other words, I'm trying to make this Hawaii-related which certainly wasn't how it started. And I agree eliminating single-use plastic is something that's needed, but Hawaii doing that on its own won't change much.

[kalakoa]

Upgraded to ( 20u - 5u carbon block - Clairify 12 ) a couple of years ago, have been drinking it (and cooking, washing dishes, bathing) with no issues whatsoever.

TCO is similar to UV, but without the power drain and yearly bulb replacement.

I did install a meter because the Clairify lifetime is rated in total gallons, not time. This has the side effect of being able to compare actual usage against a mainland water bill -- I finally have that answer for people who ask about my "utility bills".

[MarkP]

I assume the TCO employs the quantum disinfection described on the linked website, the description of which sounds like techno-babble to me. Hadn't heard of it before. Sounds great if it works but frankly sounds too good to be true.

[knieft]

I assume the TCO employs the quantum disinfection described on the linked website, the description of which sounds like techno-babble to me.  Hadn't heard of it before.  Sounds great if it works but frankly sounds too good to be true.

Yes. It claims to be good for 200,000 gallons. We use about 20,000 gallons per year (two years going). The system includes a meter to easily see how much water has been processed. Nothing is replaced for the life of the filter, and then the filter is replaced. No extra electricity beyond your pump.

(The 5 and 20 micron filters are still replaced as usual.)

The owner mentioned that they would get calls from properties with new wells who failed their safety tests with UV (2?) systems, and then always pass with the Quantum filter.

I have never tested our water and have no idea if the filter will actually last its lifetime. Especially off-grid coming from  nothing but the 5 and 20 micron filters, it seemed like a no brainer.

Of course, there is a non-zero chance that it a scam somehow, but I thought that many people have never heard of it, and information about new tech might be useful.

I believe Todd and his wife, Archer, (owners of Uncle Tilo's) are only focusing on the Quantum systems (and PH control education and Pack) over other plumbing tasks. The two quantum installs (and another earlier quick fix on the groundfos) were done to the highest standards and work ethic.

===

I shared the thread with Archer, and she replied regarding the PFAS...

"We don't know much about this at this time.  Currently, here on the island we must consider the on going eruption which impacts water quality in terms of it being acidic.  Keeping minerals in the tank provides protection on hardware and appliances.  We can not stress enough to add the Acid Rain Mineral Pack to the catchment which allows constant minerals."

Cheers,
Kirt

[kalianna]

Thanks, Kirt. Very interesting. I'll check it out.

[terracore]

If anybody is using quantum filtration, I suggest getting your water tested.

A friend of ours has a newer quantum filtration system professionally installed by a local installer. While selling their house, the water was tested during the inspection period. It tested positive for e coli coming out of the kitchen spigot.  The test was performed by an EPA certified lab. Normally they add chlorine bleach to their poly tank, but were out of town preceding the test.

Wondering if maybe there was something wrong with the test (for example, the person gathering the specimen didn't wash their hands first, the tests were mixed up, etc) I tested the water myself.  I'm not a EPA certified lab, but I was using an EPA certified test kit. It tested positive for coliform* a little after 24 hours. Very low levels of bacteria can take up to 48 hours, so the early positive isn't a great sign.

I researched quantum filters a few years ago and couldn't find any solid documentation on their efficacy one way or another.  Most of what I read sounded too good to be true, so I've been continuing to replace my UV bulb every year and servicing the quartz sleeve as appropriate.  It's possible quantum filters work great and this is a one-off event, but there are some red flags:

They keep their roof and gutters clean (way cleaner than ours)
They normally add bleach to the system
It was professionally installed (no DIY)
No vegetation on the sides of the house or tank
Closed poly tank

It's possible a single bird shit on the roof can deliver enough starter culture to contaminate an entire tank, so all the precautions in the world don't matter if the last stage of filtration doesn't effectively stop or kill pathogens. 

The owners have reached out to the installer and are waiting to hear back from them.

* "Coliform refers to a broad class of Gram-negative, lactose-fermenting bacteria found in the gastrointestinal tracts of mammals, birds, and the environment.  Their presence in water systems or on surfaces serves as a critical indicator of fecal contamination, suggesting that harmful, disease-carrying pathogens may also be present."

Again, here is the Hawaii Rain Catchment bible:  https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/hawaiirain/Library/Guides&Manuals/HI_Guidelines_2020.pdf  ("UV" appears 20 times.  "Quantum" zero).

[jffields1969]

I also research quantim filters some time ago and was unable to find any real information about their efficacy nor even an explanation of how they were supposed to function outside of a Thomas Dolby-style scientific argument provided by the manufacturers and distributors of such systems.

[Olohana 1790]

lol

fyi..... lower Puna has the cleanest air/rain in USA ........and nearly so on earth

https://beatofhawaii.com/hawaii-vacation...n-america/
https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/local-...eport-says

---

"""Thomas Dolby-style scientific argument"""

lol
Im sure his hit songs 'Europa and the Pirate Twins' or 'Hyperactive' should help w/ the plastic rain

[MyManao]

lower Puna has the cleanest air/rain in USA ........and nearly so on earth

If only life was so easy. And yes, with our air coming across thousands of miles of ocean and we being the first to breathe it as it makes landfall, it seems so easy to say our's is the best, how could it be otherwise?

But what about microplastics? or the fact that they, the tiny particles of plastic which are microscopic in size, can be a host environment for bacteria and viruses? And that they are airborne, and one of the largest sources of them is a massive body of plastic garbage in the ocean just upwind of us between here and the mainland?

So, maybe it's worth asking, how much plastic, and the diseases it hosts, is in our rain?

I don't know.. it's a new(er) idea/issue/problem to consider.

Here's an interesting study..

From.. https://pub-data.diver.orr.noaa.gov/mari...eaches.pdf

Quantification of Microplastics on National Park Beaches.

Which includes at least 4 parks in Hawaii including Hawaii Volcanoes National Park. And whatever the size of the problem is now, I suspect this is only going to get worse. At one point the paper states..

Microplastics were found at all coastal sites but with variation between and within sites (Table 2; Figures 2, 3). Apostle Island National Lakeshore (WI), National Park of American Samoa (American Samoa) and Kalaupapa National Historical Park (HI) had the highest abundances of microplastics averaging between 170 and 225 pieces of microplastics per kg of sand..