AUTO MECHANIC PROBLEMS (AGAIN)

[kalianna]

No offense Punatang, but donʻt do it sistersue! I once replaced my solenoid. Started right up. I was so proud. Drove to the store. Engine wouldnʻt shut off. Drove to my mechanic. They all gathered around and had a good laugh, then threw a wrench in, shorted it out and then had to start over. Some of us are just not made for DIY. Go back to your mechanic. Donʻt tell them you went to Lex Brodie. Give them a chance to make it right.

[Durian Fiend]

I'm going to go a little further out on the alternator limb and say that it's unlikely that the wrong one was installed.  For this to happen, all of the bolts, pins, the belt, the swivel shaft, electrical connections, brackets and perhaps other things would have to match up perfectly.  In today's world of highly specialized design, as illustrated in previous posts, the chances of a "wrong" unit matching up perfectly are pretty remote, making the physical installation impossible.

I think your first mechanic was telling the truth and that there is another issue with the car.  Why he couldn't find it is a whole other discussion.

Lex Brodie diagnosis says "alternator control wire pigtail missing lock. Alternator not charging at full voltage with a/c on. Recommend new alternator control wire pigtail de pin and re pin .5".  It also says to install either Nippon Denso or OEM dealer alternator.  We told Lex Brodie's that we were not going to have them fix the car.  We just wanted their diagnosis for our mechanic so, hopefully, they weren't scamming us.  What do you think of this evaluation?  It's all Greek to us.  Thanks.

This gives me the impression the plastic thingy that plugs into your alternator is broken, which would beg the question:  Who broke it?  I suppose it could possibly happen by trying to force the plug into a non conforming alternator.  Hope not!   

If your vehicle is a Toyota and you plan to keep it indefinitely,  an argument can be made for buying a Denso or OEM alternator at a much higher price than the standard offering found at your auto parts store because they are of higher quality.  Same would apply with a really good make such as Subaru or Honda, their replacement parts are better than the generics. 

This past fall I replaced the original alternator on a 1990 Toyota.  Yup, it lasted 33 years.  (With a cheap one off Amazon). 

[terracore]

I'm going to go a little further out on the alternator limb and say that it's unlikely that the wrong one was installed.  For this to happen, all of the bolts, pins, the belt, the swivel shaft, electrical connections, brackets and perhaps other things would have to match up perfectly.  In today's world of highly specialized design, as illustrated in previous posts, the chances of a "wrong" unit matching up perfectly are pretty remote, making the physical installation impossible.

I think your first mechanic was telling the truth and that there is another issue with the car.  Why he couldn't find it is a whole other discussion.

Lex Brodie diagnosis says "alternator control wire pigtail missing lock. Alternator not charging at full voltage with a/c on. Recommend new alternator control wire pigtail de pin and re pin .5".  It also says to install either Nippon Denso or OEM dealer alternator.  We told Lex Brodie's that we were not going to have them fix the car.  We just wanted their diagnosis for our mechanic so, hopefully, they weren't scamming us.  What do you think of this evaluation?  It's all Greek to us.  Thanks.

Without seeing your car (or being a certified mechanic) here is my take.  One of the wires that plugs into your alternator has a broken plastic tab.  It happens all the time.  The heat from the engine, fumes, etc in that environment makes the plastic brittle.  It is normal "wear and tear". It may have been at the point of failure before the first mechanic even looked at it.  These are not always replaced because it would involve cutting the wires, replacing the thing with the broken tab, re-attaching the wires, etc.  Frequently unnecessary for a half cent worth of plastic that takes an hour to fix when something like a cable tie can be used and repair it for free.  

Alternator not charging at full voltage with a/c on.  I'm assuming they did this test in their shop.  At idle.  This is also not uncommon, that is why you have a battery.  Your charging system was engineered with the assumption that your car is going to be driven some of the time, not idling indefinitely with the A/C on.  While cars can charge the battery while idling, if everything is turned on, that isn't always the case. Replacing the alternator with one with the same output isn't going to change this.

After reading these messages I realized I missed the part about what is wrong with the car?  You said it was "running terribly", but what does that mean?  If it was an issue with the charging system, it wouldn't be running at all, at least not for long.

The other thing the locking tab does is ensure the wires aren't reversed. Without knowing what "running terribly" means, the fix could be as simple as unplugging the tab, rotating it 180 degrees, and plugging it back in. I'm pretty sure lex brodies would never do that for free. I actually had this happen to me after replacing the alternator on my Impala. While the tab wasn't broke, it had a bad design that didn't prevent it from being plugged in the wrong way. The car was running fine and the battery was charging, but the "check charging system" error was showing. After googling it, the answer was, "you plugged the wires in the wrong way". So I did exactly like I described above, and the error went away. These little wires aren't associated with the actual charging system (they aren't carrying significant current). They are used for taking measurements / diagnostics / messaging computer and other systems etc.

Still recommend taking it back to first mechanic.

[Durian Fiend]

Oh, I forgot to comment on the ".5" description from Brodies. Seems to me this would be their estimated labor time to repair the plug, in which case it'd be money well spent. Wire tying or taping the connector together should only be a temporary, emergency fix. No bueno as a solution!

You could ask first mechanic to explain how he managed to overlook this defect, if indeed it exists. Suppose it could happen spontaneously from age, though I've never seen it happen on any old clunker of mine.

[Obie]

.5 at Lex Brodies would be about $150.00 based on hourly rates, shop charges, tax and parts etc .

I would stick with the original repair and ask the original mechanic why he did it !

[My 2 cents]

How do you know that the original mechanic broke the tab?  How do you know LB’s didn’t break it?  For that matter, how do you know that LB’s didn’t break it on purpose?  They had motive (damage a competitor’s reputation and the possibility of another fish in their net), and a long history of unscrupulous business practices.  I’m not saying they did.  That's my point.  I’m not a big fan of making accusations without proof.  But I do see it as a stronger possibility.  If the first mechanic had done it it would have been an accident.  There is no motive for anything else.  And I believe he would have known he did it and fixed it.  It’s an easy fix.

“I'm going to start a conspiracy theory that the engineers behind these ridiculous designs are on the WEF's payroll to herd us into buying EVs and eating da bugs.”

I love a good conspiracy theory, but I hadn’t gone beyond making parts and service more expensive.  Nice job TC.  And this plays into the diagnostics arena.

Generally the first thing a mechanic will do is run a code scan.  When it works it can be a real time-saver.  But when it doesn’t show anything, the next step is old-school diagnostics.  Most mechanics nowadays don’t want to go there because of all the question marks.  Some don’t even know how.  How long will this take?  How much is it going to cost?  There’s no way of knowing these answers going in, and customers don’t like to hear that.  And  the new genius designs just make it that much harder.  So if the scan doesn’t show anything, it’s easier to just say “I couldn’t figure it out” and move on to the next customer. 

I think the general consensus here is:

1.  The correct alternator was installed, although some would have preferred a different manufacturer,
2.  Fixing the wire shouldn’t be a big deal, just get it done,
3.  The car running poorly is a separate issue.
4.  You should go back to the first mechanic.  I would add, unless that relationship has deteriorated to an uncomfortable and irreparable point.

[Durian Fiend]

.5 at Lex Brodies would be about $150.00 based on hourly rates, shop charges, tax and parts etc .

I would stick with the original repair and ask the original mechanic why he did it !

Damn, no doubt you're right.  Living in the past here, I figured it'd be $50 labor plus a relatively cheap plastic part. 

We need to hear from Sue.  She mentioned Lex Brodie's by name but not the original mechanic's shop.

Is he too affiliated with a repair business or perhaps a shade tree clan member?

[sistersue]

.5 at Lex Brodies would be about $150.00 based on hourly rates, shop charges, tax and parts etc .

I would stick with the original repair and ask the original mechanic why he did it !

Damn, no doubt you're right.  Living in the past here, I figured it'd be $50 labor plus a relatively cheap plastic part. 

We need to hear from Sue.  She mentioned Lex Brodie's by name but not the original mechanic's shop.

Is he too affiliated with a repair business or perhaps a shade tree clan member?

I appreciate all these comments.  It helps when you give your opinions, and when this is all over I'll let you know what happens.  I don't want to mention our mechanic's name unless he lets us down. We'll know by later today after she talks to him.
"Running terribly" means the car still loses power and acts like it's going to stop running after the new alternator was put in.

[Obie]

sistersue

Could you tell us the Make, Model and year of the vehicle ?

[terracore]

.5 at Lex Brodies would be about $150.00 based on hourly rates, shop charges, tax and parts etc .

I would stick with the original repair and ask the original mechanic why he did it !

Damn, no doubt you're right.  Living in the past here, I figured it'd be $50 labor plus a relatively cheap plastic part. 

We need to hear from Sue.  She mentioned Lex Brodie's by name but not the original mechanic's shop.

Is he too affiliated with a repair business or perhaps a shade tree clan member?

I appreciate all these comments.  It helps when you give your opinions, and when this is all over I'll let you know what happens.  I don't want to mention our mechanic's name unless he lets us down. We'll know by later today after she talks to him.
"Running terribly" means the car still loses power and acts like it's going to stop running after the new alternator was put in.

You mean loses power like electrical power, or loses power like the car doesn't have much oomph?  The latter could be just about anything other than the alternator.  A clogged catalytic converter can do that.