Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045

[punikahakaiferret]

Yay, mahalo! Looking forward to checking it out! :-)

[HiloJulie]

While I am probably going out on a limb here, but I’m not going to hold my breath on either “Solarpunks”or “Lunarpunks” to solve climate change, but I can sure say with certainty that the “Punks” who must say an automatic NO to everything and anything suggested are going to get us nowhere. 

Punks like these:

https://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii-kai-nei...04508.html

[TomK]

I'm going to defend Neil deGrasse Tyson here, in that I am a big fan of him!

So, I'll say what I've said before about DeGrasse Tyson. He's very good at what he does, intelligent, and a very good TV presenter when it comes to astronomy. On the other hand, he's not a research scientist in any meaningful way and doesn't even approach the legendary status of Carl Sagan. I would much rather watch and listen to Brian Cox, Brian Greene, and Jim Al-Khalili.

[HiloJulie]

So, I'll say what I've said before about DeGrasse Tyson. He's very good at what he does, intelligent, and a very good TV presenter when it comes to astronomy. On the other hand, he's not a research scientist in any meaningful way and doesn't even approach the legendary status of Carl Sagan. I would much rather watch and listen to Brian Cox, Brian Greene, and Jim Al-Khalili.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree Tom. Don't misunderstand me. I just think Neil deGrasse Tyson presents himself much more animated and in a comedic tone, for most of the people who would hear his message. Tyson is also a big an admirer of Cox, calling Brian Cox the "UK Rock Star Stud" as not only did Cox record a highly popular song in the UK, but he was also named the Sexiest Man Alive from People Magazine - I think in 2008 or 2009 or something. I also love watching Cox in the Australian Broadcasting Corp's show QandA.

Unfortunately, most Americans think Brian Cox is the famous actor Brian Cox from HBO's hit show Succession. Turns out the two of them can be quite funny as well!

---

Oh, and one more guy to add.

Bill Nye.

Now, say what you want about him, but this is absolutely priceless: (CAUTION: CONTAINS ADULT LANGUAGE) 

[TomK]

In 2009, I had no idea who Brian Cox was, neither the actor nor scientist. I was "pissed" because they took over my photography spot on Mauma Kea!

http://apacificview.blogspot.com/2009/08...-spot.html

[TomK]

Neil deGrasse Tyson..

Points out that all life.. in an effort to put vegans in their place..

Whereas our wannabe is just being a jerk.

I will make a hypothetical argument. Let's say we've developed technology to travel to an exo-planet that shows it has conditions for life. When the explorers get there, they only find trees, flowers, bushes, grass, weeds, and perhaps some other plants that weren't expected. Do you think they're going to say the person who sent them there is a "wannabe" and "a jerk," or do you think they might say, "You have to come here and see this!"?

My guess is the latter. But if you can explain why it would be the former, please do so.

[kalianna]

What on earth does this have to do with this thread?

[randomq]

Decarbonization has failed, we need to find another planet?

Probably just needs to move to the bicker thread.

[ironyak]

kalianna - What on earth does this have to do with this thread?
Seriously, right? But why would they care?

HiloJulie - Well, to be honest, you originally posted a link and then cut and pasted 4 key lifestyle changes one can make. There was no mention of you being on solar power, just a suggestion that people could be on solar.

Sigh...

06-25-2024, 06:03 PM HiloJulie - But, in closing, please tell us what YOU have done to diminish YOUR carbon footprint.
06-25-2024, 07:09 PM Ironyak - As for personal choice, as pointed out earlier, there are key lifestyle choices that greatly reduce your contributions to climate change (and yes, I personally engage in these to various degrees, as if that makes any difference) 1) Eating a plant-based diet/reducing meat consumption [...] 2) Avoiding air travel [...] Other options like adding solar (easy in Puna, even DIY in many cases) [...]
06-27-2024, 08:35 AM HiloJulie - Nonetheless, I'd love to hear your SPECIFIC contributions to lessening or eliminating YOUR carbon footprint, instead of a diatribe of what everyone else should do.
06-27-2024, 06:40 PM HiloJulie - As for the poster I rebutted, I can’t say for certain what their personal direct contribution to lowering their carbon footprint is, as all I’ve seen them post is dissertations as to what everyone else should do.
06-27-2024, 06:53 PM Ironyak - I already did this here, but can rehash for those slow on the uptake. If you have any questions about choosing to have fewer kids [...] or using off-grid solar, [...]

If I've missed some text that you think is important to highlight, please let me know. After all, everyone is human and can misunderstand or overlook something that was said. Do you want to admit that you may have done that in this case, or just keep doubling-down?

But as I tried to point out originally, it doesn't matter if I have solar or not in highlighting that using solar power reduces emissions. Saying "smoking is harmful and should be avoided to protect one's health" is true regardless if the speaker is a smoker or not. These attempts to undermine a claim by attacking the speaker as a hypocrite is a common logical fallacy, often called the Appeal to Hypocrisy fallacy, or the Tu quoque (You too) fallacy, and is best to be avoided in a good-faith discussion.

punikahakaiferret - I also have now learned of "lunarpunk".
Oh, that's neat, Lunarpunk is new to me too - the punk literary/visual media subgenres are so diverse and wide-ranging it can be hard to keep track of them all. Some are well-established like Cyberpunk (Blade Runner, Ghost in the Shell, Altered Carbon), and some are having their moment like Atompunk with the new Fallout TV series, so perhaps we'll see more examples in the near future of positive punk genres like Lunarpunk (I do like me some bioluminescence :)

kalianna - solarpunk works to address how the future might look if humanity succeeded in solving major contemporary challenges with an emphasis on sustainability." My reaction is, oh, so like the traditional Hawaiian culture?
That's not a coincidence of course as solarpunk intentionally centers indigenous values and practices in understanding how communities work with nature to create sustainable and mutually beneficial arrangements. Societies that don't learn these lessons tend not to last.

HOTPE - My reaction was - - oh, so like The Whole Earth Catalog?
Probably yes on the back-to-the-land, DIY toolkit approach, but no on founder Stewart Brand's "we are as gods so might as well get good at it" hubris? There's been some insightful retrospectives recently with the Catalog's 50th anniversary and Brand's move from psychedelics and communes, to silicon valley and small nuclear reactors - it's all a bit complicated, but interesting. 

The podcast "Crazy Town" had a recent episode on Brand's legacy and the Ecomodernist movement. The pod's unique combination of information, 80s references, and snark is food for the soul while weeding and wheelbarrowing IMHO.

But yeah, building with repurposed items is a longtime Puna tradition - time to gather up those materials and go make something in the real world. The only sure way to fail is not to try :) Cheers!

[HiloJulie]

HiloJulie - Well, to be honest, you originally posted a link and then cut and pasted 4 key lifestyle changes one can make. There was no mention of you being on solar power, just a suggestion that people could be on solar.

Sigh...

06-25-2024, 06:03 PM HiloJulie - But, in closing, please tell us what YOU have done to diminish YOUR carbon footprint.
06-25-2024, 07:09 PM Ironyak - As for personal choice, as pointed out earlier, there are key lifestyle choices that greatly reduce your contributions to climate change (and yes, I personally engage in these to various degrees, as if that makes any difference) 1) Eating a plant-based diet/reducing meat consumption [...] 2) Avoiding air travel [...] Other options like adding solar (easy in Puna, even DIY in many cases) [...]
06-27-2024, 08:35 AM HiloJulie - Nonetheless, I'd love to hear your SPECIFIC contributions to lessening or eliminating YOUR carbon footprint, instead of a diatribe of what everyone else should do.
06-27-2024, 06:40 PM HiloJulie - As for the poster I rebutted, I can’t say for certain what their personal direct contribution to lowering their carbon footprint is, as all I’ve seen them post is dissertations as to what everyone else should do.
06-27-2024, 06:53 PM Ironyak - I already did this here, but can rehash for those slow on the uptake. If you have any questions about choosing to have fewer kids [...] or using off-grid solar, [...]

If I've missed some text that you think is important to highlight, please let me know. After all, everyone is human and can misunderstand or overlook something that was said. Do you want to admit that you may have done that in this case, or just keep doubling-down?

But as I tried to point out originally, it doesn't matter if I have solar or not in highlighting that using solar power reduces emissions. Saying "smoking is harmful and should be avoided to protect one's health" is true regardless if the speaker is a smoker or not. These attempts to undermine a claim by attacking the speaker as a hypocrite is a common logical fallacy, often called the Appeal to Hypocrisy fallacy, or the Tu quoque (You too) fallacy, and is best to be avoided in a good-faith discussion of ideas.

Perhaps maybe, using all of your self proclaimed brilliance, your self proclaimed unmatched knowledge, your self proclaimed unmistakably high intellect coupled with your diarrhea of your mouth (keyboard) where you use quantity versus quality, as well as all those redundant big words and names trying to prove your superior intelligence and realize and grasp that saying that you may do some or all of these things to various degrees is not the same as saying I specifically do this or I specifically do that. 

I would think that with all your self proclaimed superior knowledge and wisdom, of all people, you would understand that words have meanings.

And now, for your troll encore, since you pulled out the Godwin Law already, you make this about me having to admit I was wrong. The troll in all your obfuscated subterfuge of trying to prove your self proclaimed superiority and intelligence speaks again!

Nonetheless, instead of filling the pages of PunaWeb with your unmatched self proclaimed brilliance in trying to prove yourself as always being right and everyone else, especially me, as being wrong on everything, maybe we can both agree that the “world is on fucking fire” and something needs to be done. 

The main reason “lunarpunks” evolved was primarily because of the fear that the “solarpunks” would have to much power once all of the activities of the “punks” have been realized. 

I’m for seeing climate change being addressed. Clearly you are as well. 

Instead of all this blathering from you trying to prove your supreme intellect, all you had to do is say, “yes, Julie, I am on solar power.”

I guess that must be too intellectually impossible for someone with such self proclaimed intellectual capacity as you point out at virtually every post you make.