TMT construction begins Monday 15 July

['elepaio]

Thats funny Randomq, more winning ..ouchy

[TomK]

(Gov) Green also addressed concerns over federal funding cuts impacting the Thirty Meter Telescope project, a significant advancement in the state.
“Cutting National Science Foundation dollars for the 30 Meter Telescope, would put our program in deep peril,” Green said.
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There is not and has not been a program for the 30 meter telescope, in Hawaii for quite some time.
Our former mayor ruined the possibility.

That's incorrect. Although it's been evident for years that the TMT won't be built here, funding from the NSF and the partner countries continued on the assumption that it might still stand a chance. To state that there has been no program is just wrong. What's going on now is a disaster for all sciences unless it's reconsidered. This isn't just about astronomy in Hawaii which faces a bleak future, it's also medicine, NOAA and the USGS under threat from a science-hating administration.

[TomK]

Another interesting article about TMT funding. It's obviously as little one-sided, but it makes some very good points:
https://www.science20.com/hontas_farmer/...him-257479
 
"Astronomy, it seems, finds itself at the mercy of political caprice and economic machinations yet again. The Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT), once poised to revolutionize observational astronomy from the unparalleled vantage point of Mauna Kea, faces cancellation. Not due to heartfelt protest by everyday Hawaiians, but under the blunt axe wielded by the DOGE-driven economic philosophy championed by Donald Trump and the MAGA movement, with Elon Musk's tacit endorsement (at least until his next ketamine-infused revelation)."

In separate but related news, the proposed funding cuts are reportedly expected to be "catalytic." I have no idea what that means.

https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/the-co...-catalytic

"So pro-astronomy people and supporters, I believe, will double, triple their efforts. Conversely, those who oppose it are also doubling their efforts. This type of announcement at this scale is going to be catalytic to everyone that cares about the Mauna."

[randomq]

"On Wednesday (July 23), Diana Morant, the Minister of Science, Innovation and Universities in Spain, announced the Spanish government will offer a maximum of 400 million euros ($471 million) to save the Thirty Meter Telescope — a massive astronomy observation facility facing possible cancellation due to budget constraints in the U.S.

"Spain wants and can be the home of the future of astronomy and astrophysics," she said, according to a press release translated from Spanish. "We have the capacity and the political will to do so."

Originally, the Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) was planned to adorn a mountain in Hawaii called Mauna Kea. This is a very popular observing site because of how strikingly dark its skies are and how great the weather tends to be; indeed, it already is home to several other large, ground-based telescopes like the Keck Observatory and the Very Long Baseline Array. However, the TMT's development has been riding a bumpy road..."

Read more at https://www.space.com/astronomy/spain-of...ng-project

[TomK]

It sounds good, but the TMT has already tried to build in Spain, and it didn't go well. Four hundred million euros sounds a lot, but if the NSF funding gets removed, that doesn't cover the loss. In any case, Hawaii still loses out on all the benefits the TMT would bring, such as funding for STEM projects and local jobs.

[MyManao]

Interesting article..

A Cosmic Mystery: Is China Building the World’s Biggest Telescope?

Not all that (directly) Hawaii related.. but towards the end it states..

Kirshner (head of TMT) got a reprieve in mid-July. A Senate spending committee recommended minimal cuts to the NSF, and said it supported both the Magellan project and Kirshner’s Thirty Meter Telescope.

So.. one wonders.. is the Mauna/TMT project as dead as earlier statements from the NSF suggested?

[TomK]

As far as Hawaii is concerned, the TMT project has been dead for a decade. It won't be built here, and I've said that for several years now. It may still be built elsewhere, but that will end the Hawaiian connection. As for the China telescope, so what? A 48-foot diameter optical-infrared telescope would undoubtedly be larger than the twin Kecks or Subaru on MK, but hardly competitive with the TMT if it gets built or the GMT and ELT, the latter still being built. In addition, where would China build its telescope? It's not as if China is renowned for great observing sites, and the site itself is super important. You can build the largest telescope in the world, put it in the wrong place, and it ends up as a useless piece of junk. Russia/USSR discovered this years ago.

[Durian Fiend]

 In addition, where would China build its telescope? It's not as if China is renowned for great observing sites, and the site itself is super important. You can build the largest telescope in the world, put it in the wrong place, and it ends up as a useless piece of junk. Russia/USSR discovered this years ago.

What do you think about this proposed location?   Quoted from the story:   KK

"Kirshner’s best sources have been Chinese-speaking peers who informally confirmed the development of a telescope site in the Tibetan Plateau, in China’s southwest."

[TomK]

I know nothing about the site, and I suspect no one has done a site inspection either. It's high (above 4000 meters) and probably dark, but it has higher mountains nearby so that I would be concerned about seeing, or more accurately, the delivered image quality. However, it's not until it's measured that we know.

Before deciding on a site, you also need to be aware of the local weather conditions. How many clear nights a year does it get? Are high winds a problem? Is there local terrain turbulence? Then you have the more mundane but equally important issues about accessibility. Can people live nearby? Where's the nearest airport? Is power available? Are there roads? Communications? Basic infrastructure, in other words.

The TMT and existing telescopes underwent this process, which takes years. It's why the TMT chose Hawaii and why the observatories on Mauna Kea are located there; there is no better site for astronomy when all the above factors are considered. So I think all I can say is that the site is likely dry and dark, but that's about it.

Not sure if that helps you!

[Durian Fiend]

Yes, it helps. Thanks. Somehow I suspect the basic infrastructure issues aren't so much of a concern for the CCP.