The Bicker Board

[MyManao]

so not a lot of “folks who should not be here”.  Unless you’re suggesting upping the penalty?

I think he's referring to all nonwhites.

[kalakoa]

I think he's referring to all nonwhites. 

Don't forget the "wrong kind" of white people, they're just as bad (if not worse).

[ironyak]

Hmm - apparently I missed a reply that resulted in a vacation. FWIW (which is very little given all I missed) I would have hoped that MyManao's reply would have made clear how to discuss the topic with a focus on Hawai'i. For instance, one could try:

- How many unauthorized immigrants are estimated to be in Hawai'i? ~42,000 (~3% of the population), with roughly half being from the Philippines, and most of the rest from Micronesia, Marshall Islands, and China/Hong Kong. About 80% have a High school diploma or above, 50%/50% male to female split, about 25% are married, many to U.S. citizens, about 32% own a house, and about 38% have been here 20 years or more.

Probably more could be said about immigration patterns if one wanted to look up historical trends, but in general the current situation in Hawai'i does not appear to be a flood of gang-bangers arriving by small boats on our local black sand beaches. If someone has a credible source showing high crime rates in Hawai'i attached to the actual sort of human migration happening, please do share.

leilanidude - that is still 14% too many to begin with, right
Not sure what you're trying to say - 14% with a criminal record is too high, so there should be 0% of those arrested having a violent criminal record instead? Only target the older purple-heart veterans living in Hawai'i whose crimes are non-violent drug offenses tied to PTSD after being injured in yet another U.S. intervention in Central America?

Or are you saying that you think infringing on and damaging everyone's rights, most notably the first (protest/speech), second (right to bear arms), fourth (right to privacy and against illegal search and seizure), fifth (due process), and fourteenth (equal protection of the law), and killing innocent people is worth it to deport the couple dozen undocumented immigrants Tang noted were arrested in Honolulu? What is actually the larger threat to you and everyone else?

leilanidude - As to drug offenses not being considered by your "violent" count, in Hawaii, where meth and other drugs are contributing to plenty of burglaries and thefts, that is also way too many folks who should not be here either.
Deport all burglars and/or drug users, regardless of citizenship? Or just those that use "bad drugs" (ye old crack vs cocaine disparities)? Again, WTF are you on about?

Meth doesn't cause theft, poverty does (the use of street drugs is closely correlated with the cycle of poverty so poverty is more likely the cause of meth use as well), but you keep arguing against SNAP and Section 8 and every program that tries to help people survive in Hawai'i as if people cut off from resources are just going to go homeless and starve, preferably out of your sight somewhere.

As discussed many times here, the Puna po-po aren't going to prevent your stuff being stolen, probably not even do much after the fact. You're better off actually being a part of, and working within, your community so everyone is looking out for one another and should someone get a hankering for your stuff, someone's cousin can chime in about how you helped their auntie move her furniture, or dropped off spare papayas, or have done anything of tangible value for the people around you, instead of just being a dragon sitting on your hoard grumbling about the rabble.

[Moderator 2]

Hmm - apparently I missed a reply that resulted in a vacation

The reply was first read and then edited to remove Hawaii unrelated material.  It was reposted.  So then click delete, click vacation. 

[ironyak]

Gotcha - saw the post about those changes, but missed the actual back and forth edits. Would make for a tough situation when someone won't take the strong hint, or even the direct assistance, to keep things local to Hawai'i.

As a bit of a Super Bowl wrap up, for my part at least, today's entry from "Letters from an American" by U.S. Historian Heather Cox Richardson gives a good run-down linking Bad Bunny's performance to the shared history of Hawai'i and Puerto Rico, the role of sugar and racism (gasp!) in those events, and, as Ricky "la Vida Loca" Martin noted, how the experiences and people of both islands have more in common with each other than with much of the U.S. mainland.

[HiloJulie]

Let's keep in mind as it stands now, the current laws and funding for ICE Operations including here in Hawaii, is the overall goal of deporting ALL undocumented immigrants. 

While the fluff pieces and bullet talking points keep saying "worst of the worst," the end game is to deport the, as referenced in Ironyak's link, 42,000 undocumented immigrants here in Hawaii. Regardless of being a bad hombres or just a good old 12 hours a day family man Kona Coffee Farmers. Eventually, without any changes to current laws in place, or funding thereof, those 42,000 are going to be gone.

Speaking specifically to Hawaii, the cost to eventually deport those 42,000 would be absolutely mind boggling. Various sources on the Google estimate $15,000 grand per person. I am sure, being Hawaii, the price per person would be more, but even at $15,000 per person, for 42,000 people - that's $630,000,000. Plus there is also the cost of the arrest, detainment, medical care if needed while in detainment and processing before being put on a plane to some other hell hole country.

On top of that, most of those 42,000 contribute to each local economy where they live. When they are gone, the contribution to the economy goes too. No more paying rent, no buying food, gas, clothes, iPhones...

Imagine infusing Hawaii with $630,000,000 and reinvesting it into Hawaii as a whole. For everybody. Build resilient farming, agriculture, infrastructure, social help programs, feed the children, the elderly, take care of the single mom of those 3 clutches. Think of all the good that could come out of all of this instead of the "mean," "nasty," "vile" reality of what has, is and will eventually happen and, as we see, some actually want that.

And then, yes, lets also invest in really rounding up the worst of the worst - legal or illegal. 

Or, let it all play out and maybe as you say goodbye to your next door neighbor, friend, co-worker et al, as they board the deportation planes, maybe even with a Black pilot, out of Hawaii, this guy moves in.

What??? No worries. He's legal. No doubt a Proud Hawaii resident and Proud American. And a looker too! Hot stuff!
 
Never mind being out on $1,100.00 bail, I'm sure he is a good upstanding citizen. I'm sure those 42,000 are much much worse. Right? Right??

[ironyak]

FYI there's a term for it: Sealioning - "a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter."

ETA: In before Mod: Did you know we have a sea lion park on O'ahu? Yet more flown-not-grown peeps from California... grumble, grumble, bicker, bicker... ;)

[Wao nahele wahine]

The pen (or keyboard) is mightier than the sword (or foil, épée, or saber).

[HiloJulie]

FYI there's a term for it: Sealioning -  a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter.

Thanks Ironyak! I learned something new! And it sure hits the nail squarely on the head!

[Moderator 2]

FYI there's a term for it: Sealioning 

There’s also a term for not posting about Hawaii: 
Not Posting About Hawaii.