UKIRT To End Maunakea Operations September 15

[Durian Fiend]

If anyone wants to see the report from Dr. Crabtree I could possibly post it....

Yes, please, I’d like to read it.

OK, let's try this.   Oops, the file is too large.  I'm open to suggestions on how to proceed.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I ask, again: which "the" Hawaiians? 

Here’s one example of The Hawaiians, at OHA, their group dynamics on display, with none of the imagined consensus some believe they operate under:

Bitter divisions at the Office of Hawaiian Affairs over how to handle a lawsuit from the office’s ousted CEO are weakening OHA’s ability to defend itself, destabilizing the office’s Board of Trustees and threatening to imperil projects years in the making, trustees and a lawyer for the organization said Monday.

https://civilbeat.org/2026/07/we-cant-sc...nkles-oha/

[MyManao]

Here’s one example of The American's group dynamics on display..

select any news site you wish..

If any group is screwed up it's those white guys..

Seriously edge.. who isn't?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

If any group is screwed up it's those white guys..

Seriously .. who isn't?

Yes, The Hawaiians, The Americans The Etc…
I think that’s the point kalakoa was trying to make. There’s no single viewpoint that can be accurately applied to any group.

The Native Hawaiian view of the TMT changed dramatically over time from quite positive to negative. But never 100% for or 100% against. Why? Social media campaigns? Choosing peace in the ohana over a scientific construction project? Probably many many reasons.

[Durian Fiend]

This truncated version might fit...

[MyManao]

Here’s one example of The Hawaiians, at OHA, their group dynamics on display, with none of the imagined consensus some believe they operate under..

I'm still curious, Edge, who is this "some" that you suggest "believe" in an "imagined consensus"?

I ask because the bite, that particular edge to your statement, seems to be hyper critical of a group of people, the Hawaiians, because they don't have a consensus. It's as if you're implying a consensus of this sort is expected, normal, and to not have one makes those that lack such a thing somehow inferior.. lessor than. When in fact I know of no-one, other than you, who suggests such a thing. Sheesh man, in any given house is there ever a consensus over what to eat? What to watch? When to whatever? Have you ever raised kids?

Face it man, I think our, the government we live under, leader is one of the biggest criminals since.. well you can fill in that blank.. whereas it seems to me others think the guy walks on water. Consensus?

The fun part is in how we all can say this or that about one of our own.. sis did this, sis is that, omg sis blah blah blah. But when a neighbor comes and wants to bitch about sis god help them the entire family gonna be in their face, what you say about sis? The same way about countries.. any group, ohana. Just because you privy to them on laundry day don't mean they ain't gonna be wearing their best when they come to the party.

But hey, if the proof is in the pudding, then you know, those Hawaiians that stood up and blocked the road to the mauna.. they looked to me to have a consensus real good. And where you can take the polls and cast the votes, and say otherwise, they stood there looking, acting, and effecting the reality as a consensus.

[kalakoa]

those Hawaiians that stood up and blocked the road to the mauna.. they looked to me to have a consensus

Yes, some Hawaiians did have a consensus... but they weren't speaking for "all" the Hawaiians.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I'm still curious, Edge, who is this "some" that you suggest "believe" in an "imagined consensus"?

Perhaps something like this quote below? Where a small group chained to a cattle crossing are considered spokespersons for all Native Hawaiians with 100%? 50%? 25%? blood quantum? That small subset certainly had consensus. Do you think their actions reflected and were an example of the wishes for All The Hawaiians?

But hey, if the proof is in the pudding, then you know, those Hawaiians that stood up and blocked the road to the mauna.. they looked to me to have a consensus real good. And where you can take the polls and cast the votes, and say otherwise, they stood there looking, acting, and effecting the reality as a consensus.

[randomq]

I can tell you most of the hapa Hawaiians I work with, who have family roots going back to the beginning of the plantation days, have no problem with telescopes or science on the mauna, good jobs for their kids, etc. They also have little to no respect for the types that are professional protesters, don't work for a living, want to return to a monarchy, etc. Admittedly a small sampling, but it shows that there is not a consensus among everyone Hawaiian. The biggest concern I heard back during the protests was that hunting would be restricted.

[MyManao]

I can tell you most of the hapa Hawaiians I work with, who have family roots going back to the beginning of the plantation days, have no problem with telescopes or science on the mauna, good jobs for their kids, etc.

I would say that those I know who still occupy the same lands they had from the Māhele, who still live on, and/or take part in keeping their family's kuleana, feel stronger about the injustice and are more attuned to a desire to see it righted, than those I know who do not have that direct ancestral bond. Equally the same holds for those whose mother tongue is ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi. I'd also speculate that resistance to the telescopes, and the astronomical endeavor as a whole, is symbolic more than it is a direct distaste for..

And still if push came to shove, I think those that stand in resistance to would, as they have done before, be the louder voice of the day. Unless, of course, the magic of peaceful coexistence can be realized through the ongoing dialog that the folks over at the TMT seem to have initiated. In which I place my hopes.