Posts: 8,464
Threads: 1,032
Joined: May 2003
Believe it or not it is my understanding that a homeowner is not allowed to dig their own cesspool pit. Only a qualified pit digger can dig.
It may be that any homeowner can dig any number of holes on their property without regard to width or depth - they just can't dig them themselves and then use it for a cesspool or septic tank.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Posts: 1,062
Threads: 43
Joined: Apr 2009
That sure sounds like a "union special".
Posts: 4,533
Threads: 241
Joined: Jan 2006
Right. You need to hold a specific license for it.
Posts: 4,533
Threads: 241
Joined: Jan 2006
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Orts...
3. They can install HVAC subject to inspection.
I believe HVAC falls into the plumber and electrician's hands also.
Posts: 1,839
Threads: 48
Joined: May 2007
"Based on everyone’s experience, besides the absolute prohibition on electrical and plumbing, are there any other aspects of home construction as an owner/builder where the owner/builder cannot perform some of the actual work?"
I believe that the owner/builder can perform some of the actual tasks, but only under the supervision of the Subcontractor.
Posts: 1,581
Threads: 26
Joined: Jun 2007
Dan, believe it or not, the actual law exempts owner/builder from licensing requirements as a general engineering contractor, general building contractor, and specialty contractor. It does not exempt an O/B from electrical or plumbing contracting.
The wording (and in reading the testimony submitted during legislation on this chapter) clearly states that an O/B can perform all the duties of those three without needing a license. It doesn’t say the O/B must hire only license contractors to do or supervise the work, it says that you as an O/B essentially are one of those contractors and you are exempt from licensing. You can do it yourself, you can hire a licensed contractor to do some of it, or you can hire a licensed contractor to supervise your work.
It is only in the area of electrical and plumbing where you have absolutely no options. You can't under O/B perform any electrical or plumbing. It is technically against the law if you hire an electrical/plumbing contractor who lets you run the wires/piping but they pull permits, supervise your work, inspect/correct any mistakes and accept responsibility. You can not do anything according to the law.
That raise a significant question of why? What about these two trades, are so specialized that it carries more weight requiring only a licensed contractor to perform? Is just pulling wires that much more specialized than foundations work? Are those two that much more a safety concern over structural elements of a building? Is the risk to the public greater with electric/plumbing than foundation or structural elements?
Let’s say you do the foundation and structural elements yourself. The judge of quality & code adherence is the building inspector. If those two items can be performed by an O/B and accepted based on the inspection, why can't the same be applied to electrical/plumbing? This is not hidden work where it can't be inspected.
So the law puts a burden on the O/B for electrical/plumbing that is not consistent with any other major component of the building process. Whatever justification for electrical/plumbing that was made could just as well and certainly be as important as the foundation and structural elements of that building. All the reasons that could be used for justifying this restriction on electric/plumbing would equally apply to many other parts of the building process, yet is does not.
This is not about you the O/B or your perceived rights. It’s about protectionism of a trade that is being denied to other equally important trades. The process of determining the requirement to use only licensed electric/plumbing for an O/B is inconsistent with not requiring equal protection to other trades of the building process. There is nothing in past testimony that applies to electrical and plumbing that could not or should not be applied to all other trades of equal complexity. There is also nothing in the performance of electric/plumbing that would render standard building inspection processes unable to judge the work like any other trade.
So, I ask, were these two trades provided a protective benefit by government that is denied all other similar contractors and is that a violation of Hawaii’s Constitution?
Posts: 2,381
Threads: 125
Joined: Jun 2009
Bob,
The State of Hawaii was cited by the Supreme Court for waiving state taxes on Hawaii distilled and brewed spirits while placing a tariff on Spirits brought into the State. Though not directly related, it's a like type unequal application of Statute.
So good work, but… it’s a matter that still requires judicial review, just as the rights argument would. What you pointed out may be why most states do not require the O/B to use licensed contractors, because if they require one trade, legally speaking they must require all trades and they know they will never get away with stopping people from doing the structural aspects, so, it becomes a taboo issue.
HVAC
Technically speaking on HVAC, the only part that falls under the Plumbing or Electrical trades are the aspects of the service hookups to the Thermal Appliance in question. That can vary for appliance type. Though the state may have wormed its way around this too, I don't know for sure. HVAC is technically a trade unto its own specialty and the manufacturers of the appliances will only provide warranties if installed by licensed HVAC technicians, so, the point is mute if one wants a warranty on the appliance, regardless of the legislative position regarding installation. The warranty does not consider or include the ductile work aspect (which is 95% of the physical work involved in a new construction application), only the installation of the appliances themselves are warranty related.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
Posts: 1,581
Threads: 26
Joined: Jun 2007
Which would be acceptable?
1. An O/B must hire a licensed electrical/plumbing contractor who pulls permits. The licensed contractor is responsible for instructing the O/B on the specifications of the work to be performed. The O/B can perform all the actual work under that permit themselves. The licensed contractor is responsible for work quality and code adherence by the O/B. The licensed contractor will call for the final inspection. The licensed contractor is the only person permitted to make final connection to utility grid (electrical or municipal water supply) services. The final judge of quality and adherence to codes is the final inspection.
2. An O/B must hire a licensed electrical/plumbing contractor who pulls permits. The O/B can perform all the actual work under that permit themselves. The O/B can call for the final inspection. The licensed contractor is the only person permitted to make final connection to utility grid (electrical or municipal water supply) services. The final judge of quality and adherence to codes is the final inspection.
3. An O/B can pull electrical & plumbing permits. An O/B can do any and all work. An O/B can call for final inspections. A licensed contractor is the only person permitted to make final connection to utility grid (electrical or municipal water supply) services. The final judge of quality and adherence to codes is the final inspection.
4. An O/B can pull electrical & plumbing permits. An O/B can do any and all work. An O/B can call for final inspections. An O/B can make final connection to utility grid (electrical or municipal water supply) services. The final judge of quality and adherence to codes is the final inspection.
Posts: 6,214
Threads: 354
Joined: Feb 2006
I may be wrong & don't wanna look this up, & know that some on the forum know this:
Doesn't the design of the structure also have to be stamped,or can an OB do their own design & submit it, in order to get a permit? If so, one more trade....
Posts: 2,381
Threads: 125
Joined: Jun 2009
Carey,
According to the HAWAII code/statutes - Anyone including an OB must use an licensed architect or licensed structural engineer. An engineer is required (even for a licensed architect drawn plan) for roof spans over 30' and any structure over 1 story. An architect at minimum must be used for anything under 30' roof span or even a single story structure regardless if OB or licensed contractor application of permit.
This is not uncommon amongst the States and not one that is likely to be argued successfully in court, I've dealt with it for years and fully agree with these requirements. This does not disallow the OB from drafting up and designing every attribute of the house it only means that a licensed engineer or architect has to endorse the plan. Typically I only use engineers and submit my plans to the engineer who sends me back a schematic that cites the hold downs and required structural elements that need to be called out on the submittal plans. I then incorporate the engineering additions to the final plans and shoot them back to the engineer who then signs and stamps the final plans. For me... the average engineering fee for a simple Single Family house is around $1500 and as low as $500 and can vary greatly upward depending on the scope of the design.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
