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Sen Ruderman, where is the proof
#46
Rob, the largest I'm familiar with is 100 acres. There may be larger operations, but I'm not aware of them. There's no reason Permaculture can't scale however. Permaculture is a design and engineering system that that creates sustainable ecosystems that mimic nature. Sustainable ecosystems that, done correctly, should not require the backbreaking work you speak of. We're not against the use of mechanization but of course want to reduce its use for the farmer's pocketbook as well as the benefit of the ecosystem. We also focus on perennial crops for a variety of reasons including having 300 acres of organic broccoli is backbreaking (unsustainable) work like you describe. If Richard has 1000 acres of broccoli and wants to only have 1000 acres of broccoli then yes, Permaculture isn't like to benefit him very much though some implementations could be useful.

I agree with you that feeding the population of the world is a daunting task. A task that we are already failing miserably at. Over a billion people in the world are currently not receiving enough food and billions of us who are, are receiving food that is unhealthy. Even our, "healthy" food these days is less nutritionally dense than previously. There are studies showcasing that since 1980, the nutrient density of our fruits and vegetables has dropped between 5 and 40% depending on the variety. There are also studies showcasing that there is a negative correlation between yield and nutrient density. And then of course there is the problem of having to utilize pesticides and herbicides when we farm in a manner that does not work to create a balance in nature.

It's daunting indeed. The one area I disagree with you on is that nobody wants to do the farming labor anymore. I agree that nobody wants to go out and pick row after row of tomatoes anymore. But there are countless people who want to get back to the land and practice permaculture who simply can't afford to. The 53 interns I had to turn away from my very small farm last year showcases that. The question is, how can we allow people like Richard to continue to profit, IMPROVE the ecosystem, and provide extremely nutrient dense, healthy food free of potentially toxic byproducts. Those who bring all parties to the table and solve these problems in an inclusive manner are the real leaders we need.
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Messages In This Thread
Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Richard Ha - 01-15-2014, 07:37 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by snorkle - 01-15-2014, 08:24 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by hikatz - 01-15-2014, 09:03 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-15-2014, 09:12 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by hikatz - 01-15-2014, 09:39 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-15-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-15-2014, 11:46 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-15-2014, 11:55 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-15-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-15-2014, 12:26 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-15-2014, 12:41 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-15-2014, 01:11 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-15-2014, 01:20 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Russell - 01-15-2014, 01:21 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-15-2014, 01:37 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-15-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by snorkle - 01-15-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-15-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-15-2014, 04:18 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by davidr - 01-15-2014, 05:14 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by ourdoc - 01-15-2014, 06:06 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-15-2014, 11:30 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-15-2014, 11:42 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-15-2014, 11:46 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-16-2014, 02:08 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by ericlp - 01-16-2014, 02:20 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by OpenD - 01-16-2014, 02:21 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by OpenD - 01-16-2014, 02:25 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-16-2014, 02:47 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by OpenD - 01-16-2014, 04:29 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-16-2014, 05:21 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by snorkle - 01-16-2014, 06:35 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by OpenD - 01-16-2014, 06:53 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-16-2014, 09:53 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-16-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-16-2014, 11:10 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-16-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by steve1 - 01-16-2014, 11:39 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-16-2014, 04:26 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-16-2014, 04:41 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by kalakoa - 01-16-2014, 04:54 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-16-2014, 05:00 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-17-2014, 01:38 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by OpenD - 01-17-2014, 02:44 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by kalakoa - 01-17-2014, 03:27 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-17-2014, 03:47 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by snorkle - 01-17-2014, 04:12 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-17-2014, 04:23 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by geochem - 01-17-2014, 04:47 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-17-2014, 05:13 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-17-2014, 05:17 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-17-2014, 06:06 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-17-2014, 06:13 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by geochem - 01-17-2014, 06:15 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-17-2014, 07:09 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-17-2014, 07:33 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-17-2014, 08:38 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by snorkle - 01-17-2014, 09:25 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by geochem - 01-17-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-17-2014, 10:06 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-17-2014, 10:25 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by OpenD - 01-17-2014, 05:10 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-17-2014, 05:22 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by OpenD - 01-17-2014, 05:27 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-17-2014, 07:57 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-17-2014, 08:00 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Permie - 01-17-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-17-2014, 11:52 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-17-2014, 11:57 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by TomK - 01-18-2014, 07:47 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-20-2014, 04:05 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Russell - 01-20-2014, 05:03 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-20-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-20-2014, 05:23 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-20-2014, 05:28 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by rbrgs - 01-21-2014, 06:26 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by robguz - 01-21-2014, 05:19 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-22-2014, 12:24 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by rbrgs - 01-22-2014, 05:06 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Russell - 01-22-2014, 05:26 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by kalakoa - 01-22-2014, 06:11 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-22-2014, 07:53 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-22-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-22-2014, 02:45 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-22-2014, 02:50 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-22-2014, 02:51 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-23-2014, 03:04 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-23-2014, 03:19 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-23-2014, 07:06 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-23-2014, 07:27 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-23-2014, 07:51 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-23-2014, 08:04 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by kalakoa - 01-23-2014, 08:21 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by DaVinci - 01-23-2014, 09:35 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by TomK - 01-23-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-23-2014, 09:08 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-23-2014, 09:13 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-23-2014, 09:22 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-23-2014, 09:44 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-24-2014, 12:18 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-24-2014, 03:25 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-24-2014, 03:30 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-24-2014, 03:47 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-24-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-24-2014, 04:37 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 01-24-2014, 05:29 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-25-2014, 02:12 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by dldixon - 01-25-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-26-2014, 02:26 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-26-2014, 06:57 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by dldixon - 01-26-2014, 07:06 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by dldixon - 01-26-2014, 10:03 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by dldixon - 01-26-2014, 03:12 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-26-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 01-26-2014, 11:56 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-27-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-28-2014, 05:16 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by dldixon - 01-28-2014, 05:21 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by geochem - 01-29-2014, 06:11 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by snorkle - 01-29-2014, 06:21 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by snorkle - 01-29-2014, 06:54 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-29-2014, 07:15 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 01-29-2014, 07:35 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by TomK - 01-29-2014, 07:05 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by TomK - 01-29-2014, 08:00 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by TomK - 01-30-2014, 06:10 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 02-05-2014, 06:56 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-06-2014, 02:21 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-06-2014, 02:33 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-06-2014, 02:44 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-06-2014, 03:11 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-06-2014, 04:02 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by dldixon - 02-06-2014, 04:08 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-06-2014, 05:01 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-06-2014, 05:08 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-06-2014, 05:12 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-06-2014, 05:30 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by kalakoa - 02-06-2014, 05:43 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-06-2014, 11:54 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 02-06-2014, 12:28 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by wax - 02-06-2014, 12:40 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 02-09-2014, 06:15 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 02-12-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by geochem - 02-12-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 02-12-2014, 01:16 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Obie - 02-13-2014, 04:56 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-13-2014, 06:46 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by kalakoa - 02-13-2014, 06:51 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Russell - 02-13-2014, 04:50 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by PaulW - 02-13-2014, 05:21 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by jerry - 02-18-2014, 12:35 PM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by geochem - 02-19-2014, 03:35 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by geochem - 02-19-2014, 06:16 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by geochem - 02-19-2014, 06:55 AM
RE: Sen Ruderman, where is the proof - by Guest - 02-19-2014, 07:00 AM

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