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sovereignty squatters arrested
quote:
Just think about this scenario: you live in X country your whole life, your family has lived there as far back as anyone can remember, you family speaks the language of X and are all literate in this language, this language is the language of business and government. The language is an important part of your culture, and society, there are many newspapers, books, songs and religious tracts published in this language. Then newcomers from Y overthrow your government, make the language of Y the official language, and ban the use of language X in the schools and government. Your children and grandchildren are physically punished for speaking their own language in school and become so disillusioned, hurt and angry by their mistreatment in school that they reject education for the next several generations, only to have the descendants of the Y tribe tell them they are just a bunch of ignorant loser welfare bums who should just move to Las Yegas to be maids and busboys, and leave their beautiful island home to the Y tribe, who clearly deserve it since they are so hardworking and educated compared to the X tribe, for whom this is the only home they have ever known. How would that feel?

This is exactly what I mean, disingenuous. To show you what I mean let's just pick it apart line by line.

"you live in X country your whole life, your family has lived there as far back as anyone can remember"

I have to assume you are talking about Hawaii Island only, because the Hawaiian kingdom didn't exist or wouldn't have existed pre-contact. You are also not talking about the other islands because they could have easily remembered a time when they were not oppressed by Kamehameha, other the other previous occupants who were likely killed off. However, let's continue.


Conquered people have a particularly difficult time with education systems that are imposed on them by their conquerors.


Again, I have to assume the conquerors you are referring to isn't the Hawaiian Kingdom, who imposed their will on the other islands, adopted the English language,ran their governments in English, preferred to hire english speakers, opened English Schools and generally thought English was the future.

So the brutal oppression by the republic of Hawaii apparently consists of continuing the english language customs of the Hawaiian Kingdom, making english the primary language of schools (not banning other languages) and some school teachers who took it upon themselves to discipline (can't bring myself to call them beatings) for breaking the rules.

The education system is inherently steeped in the values, language and culture of the conquerors, and embracing education in that context feels like a betrayal of their own culture.


The cultural system that started being dismantled by the first King of Hawaii prior to any real western influence being established. However, I don't think these are the conquerors you are referring to.

The inequities of the post overthrow education system, and the Native American boarding schools, both have cast very long shadows on multiple generations of students. Both the Native Hawaiians and the Native Americans finally wrested a degree of control over their children's education in the recent past, and have seen a real upturn in educational participation at all levels.

This makes no sense, what was the real difference pre and post overthrow? What laws forced Hawaiian kids to go to school, what laws forced Hawaiian language underground and culture out of the home.

I don't understand why so many of you can live here, claim to love Hawaii, and yet are so dismissive and insulting about the Native Hawaiians and their pain at being disenfranchised and displaced here in their own place.

This is the other thing I can't stand. If you ever question the motives or accuracy it's always seem as disrespectful and insulting. What have I said that has been so insulting and disrespectful? What have I said that has been inaccurate (that I haven't retracted). Is the truth insulting?

How have the Native Hawaiians been disenfranchised, they have more freedom now living under the US then they ever did in the Hawaiian Kingdom. The religion and language has been restored more in the state then ever in the Hawaiian Kingdom. The common Hawaiian has more say in government, the ability to become part of government, has more input then at anytime in their history. So please tell me how the (non-alii) Hawaiians have been disenfranchised.

The attitude seems to be: tough luck, you lost, just get over it. They are Hawaiians, trying to live in Hawaii, no one else is entitled to tell them that their feelings of anger and pain aren't real,


No, it's more along the lines of get your facts straight and learn your history than get over it. No one is saying you can't have your feelings or anger your welcome to it. Just realize other people have made this place or home as well, and they do not have to bow to you.


and certainly not someone who chose move here from somewhere else and now wants to dismiss the concerns of the Native Hawaiians because those concerns are inconvenient for the new transplant.


Some someone who likes to through around the disrespect and insults you sure dish it out. Respect is a two way street, and it's hard to take you asking for respect seriously when you throw around the disrespects and insults. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

I am not a transplant, though I got to had it to you. Trying to dismiss me in the same sentence you complain about being dismissed.
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Messages In This Thread
sovereignty squatters arrested - by ericlp - 08-14-2015, 02:49 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by ericlp - 08-14-2015, 03:43 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-14-2015, 04:17 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-14-2015, 04:28 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by jlgerk - 08-15-2015, 04:33 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by knieft - 08-15-2015, 05:22 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Clayjacks - 08-15-2015, 05:25 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-15-2015, 05:50 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by knieft - 08-15-2015, 06:07 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-15-2015, 06:52 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by knieft - 08-15-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by kalakoa - 08-15-2015, 11:08 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-15-2015, 04:58 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-15-2015, 06:00 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by rainyjim - 08-15-2015, 10:00 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by kalakoa - 08-16-2015, 03:29 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by MattKarma - 08-16-2015, 05:03 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Clayjacks - 08-16-2015, 08:06 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by rainyjim - 08-16-2015, 10:47 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by bystander - 08-16-2015, 11:57 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by rainyjim - 08-16-2015, 12:34 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by b_a - 08-16-2015, 01:58 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by rainyjim - 08-16-2015, 05:19 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by MattKarma - 08-16-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Guest - 08-17-2015, 01:45 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by kalakoa - 08-17-2015, 03:59 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by pahoated - 08-20-2015, 11:17 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-20-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by MattKarma - 08-20-2015, 03:42 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by ericlp - 08-20-2015, 05:35 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by dmbwest - 08-20-2015, 05:41 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by kalakoa - 08-21-2015, 02:40 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by bystander - 08-21-2015, 03:29 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Chunkster - 08-21-2015, 03:50 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by beejee - 08-21-2015, 03:53 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by MattKarma - 08-21-2015, 05:14 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by kalakoa - 08-21-2015, 05:23 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-21-2015, 05:26 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by pahoated - 08-21-2015, 05:46 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-21-2015, 10:18 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by beejee - 08-21-2015, 10:45 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-21-2015, 10:52 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by beejee - 08-21-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by beejee - 08-21-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by MarkP - 08-21-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by rbbyrd - 08-22-2015, 05:29 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Chunkster - 08-22-2015, 06:06 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by MarkP - 08-22-2015, 06:08 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by beejee - 08-22-2015, 07:02 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by dan d - 08-22-2015, 08:15 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 10:10 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 11:09 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 11:20 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by dmbwest - 08-22-2015, 11:24 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 11:42 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by dmbwest - 08-22-2015, 11:56 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 12:14 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-22-2015, 01:35 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by tada - 08-22-2015, 03:32 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by tada - 08-22-2015, 03:34 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 03:58 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 04:07 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by tada - 08-22-2015, 04:53 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 05:23 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by dmbwest - 08-22-2015, 05:46 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 06:15 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-22-2015, 06:22 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by beejee - 08-23-2015, 01:44 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by kalakoa - 08-23-2015, 03:38 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by beejee - 08-23-2015, 04:46 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by rainyjim - 08-23-2015, 05:08 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-23-2015, 05:20 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by knieft - 08-23-2015, 05:52 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-23-2015, 06:14 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by MarkP - 08-23-2015, 06:36 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by bystander - 08-23-2015, 11:15 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by MarkP - 08-23-2015, 12:08 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-23-2015, 05:27 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-23-2015, 05:33 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by TomK - 08-23-2015, 08:21 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by bystander - 08-24-2015, 06:47 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-24-2015, 11:48 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Frank - 08-24-2015, 03:24 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by opihikao - 08-24-2015, 04:18 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Frank - 08-24-2015, 04:37 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by MarkP - 08-24-2015, 04:39 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Justin - 08-24-2015, 06:11 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Mtviewdude - 08-24-2015, 06:23 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-25-2015, 04:48 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-25-2015, 07:44 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-25-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-25-2015, 09:08 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by Kaimana - 08-25-2015, 09:19 AM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by TomK - 08-25-2015, 06:44 PM
RE: sovereignty squatters arrested - by kalakoa - 08-26-2015, 03:04 AM

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