Small Permittable Starter Structure

[Namahola]

Would you do this in your current location without causing issues for your neighbors? Why would you think it OK to do so here? Puna already has enough shacks and cabins littering up the landscape.

As I said, I Am also considering going with permitted structures from the start and I AM seeking advice on the least expensive way to start! I also mentioned the very glorious homestead that started with what the called a "wood storage building" But their so called wood storage building was an extremely fully furnished lovely cabin, and the rest of the unpermitted homestead is quite luxurious and sold for about $150,000.00 to $175.000.00 only because it was unpermitted. Had it been permitted it would have sold for very much more!

What you need to understand is that they called it a "wood storage building" and built it simply in order to have a permitted structure, with low tax, and abiity to get electricity and phone hooked up. Later the decked out the building and converted it into a wonderful cabin, then build the dream house (unpermitted) that they wanted on their property as well.

I have also seen people do the same thing with a permitted "barn" and by time it was all done it was way beyond anything anyone would keep animals in. And in fact likely never had anything living in it that was not human!


I Am also wise enough to know that since the county is already phasing out cesspools, which are already illegal, that they may very well decide to move against unpermitted structures in a variety of ways, and I have no intention of getting caught is that trick bag.

And yes I know of cesspools still being built, and that is a real danger to not only neighbors, but everyone who taps into the tainted water table or land downstream from flood waters that flow over cesspools. Anyone can do what they want, and I will not criticize, however I would never install  cesspool, legal or otherwise. Do YOU have a cesspool? just asking...

For the record I Am an environmentalist, naturalist, and bona fide country boy long before they had words like environmentalist and naturalist in the common lexicon of today.   Even back then we had SEPTIC TANK and knew the unwise use of cesspool for human waste.


I Also agree with the other poster here who mentions rotting cars and dogs chained up in yards. Both are cruel examples of humanity working against nature and the environment! We has a dog with a proper dog house and made him home made dog food! He did not bark disturbing neighbors nor run rampant through the countryside. The dog owners of today have pests instead of pets that typically add to NOISE POLLUTION and those that are allowed to run loose kill chickens, ducks, etc. I will have a stout fence against dogs and pigs, and be far enough away from any neighbors to NOT hear the barking...


As far as causing issues for anyone, I Am of quite the opposite. I always come with ecologically and economically sound solutions for the problems already in place, including remediation and elimination of the decades long flooding issues plaguing Hawaiian Acres and surrounding areas. I ask a lot of questions because I prefer to avoid problems. And answers I have gotten on Punaweb helped me to avoid having to rip  piece of virgin land! So I appreciate such sound POSITIVE input!

Basically I Am a solution oriented, peace loving, harmony based God loving person who knows there is NOTHING impossible for those who believe and work together for the benefit of all mankind!


Mahalo for you input and know that I too feel as you do when it comes to those with selfish, short minded goals without concern for nature or others. You get no argument from me here!

Now if you have answers that are relevant to the queries I posed I Am equally interested to hear them.

To refresh and restate the question for clarity, I Am interested in anyone with EXPERIENCE is getting started with a small structure, permitted or non permitted, in the least expensive way. I do plan to start with water catchment, composting toilet, and about 10,000 watts of solar electricity, and septic tank. Soon after I will add flush toilet and bath house.

I prefer to steer clear of European styled square structures, and any buildings that do not work in harmony with nature for heating, cooling, and ventilation in place that God freely gives us.  I retain an architecturally open mind open mind as did our ancestors when it comes to many things foundational to life and living!

God bless and be well!

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Shacks and cabins are not automatically unsightly or unpermittable. It's the collection of wrecked cars with dogs chained to them that "litters" the landscape. Despite having these really deep lots, most people put everything right up on the road, either because it's less bulldozer work or because they want grid power. Going off-grid makes the long driveway less of a problem. Long driveway means nobody can see your shack from the road. Privacy and aesthetics. Win-win.

That said: Telcom's hard requirement is that you provide an attachment point at least 14' above ground level and within 100' of their line. This doesn't have to be a building, it can be a pole. A single 20' piece of galvanized 4" pipe will suffice; hire a bore operator to drill a hole for it. Everything beyond that is your problem, more poles or conduit or whatever. Use at least 1.25-inch conduit with enough access pulls for a 300' fish tape. (Pulls are ideally a C-body, which isn't available on-island. I found them on eBay.) The conduit does not need to be buried, just make sure you won't step/drive on it. You can "cheat" a little by crossing your footpaths with schedule-80 conduit in a shallow trench.

They used to require two ground rods, but these aren't needed for fiber, it doesn't conduct lightning strikes, so there's no protector that needs a ground.

Dry indoor location with power for the ONT. These draw something like 4W. Most off-grid inverters pull ~100W when idle, so the overnight load to leave the ONT powered up has negligible impact on battery capacity. Your side of the ONT is standard copper ethernet, possibly with a port of analog dialtone if it's a "residential" fiber drop. Don't unplug the fiber and look in the end, the non-visible wavelengths mean you won't be able to see the light burning your retina.

NOTE that "fiber on the road" isn't the same as "a fiber terminal within 1000 feet of your location". Terminals are black, rectangular, with an orange/black location tag that begins with FO. The cylindrical "ribbed can" is an infrastructure connection point, not for subscribers. HELCO poles are typically every other lot corner, so if you know the lot width you can guesstimate the distance to the terminal.

There is a code provision that exempts all Telcom installers from permitting requirements; you don't even need to ask.

Kalakoa, my brother and my friend! I love the way you talk!

You are a true blessing and wealth of positive useful information. You get exactly what I AM talking about. I love long driveways and privacy. I love simplicity and beauty. Not into "shacks" and such.

I have engineering experience dealing with fiber optic, laser interface, etc. so I heed the warnings!
My inverter of choice pull less than 10W in standby and I will have 10K watts available from the start. My logic is to start with major necessities like max power I will want, water catchment, communications, septic tank, very quickly graduate to flush toilet from composting toilet (once septic tank is installed) and start modestly on the living structure if need be that I can add to later.



Kalakoa, Can you suggest someone to install what the telecom company requires for me? I have the experience and ability to lay the remaining conduit and pull that cable etc.  I will likely bury it as I have experience in that sort of thing too!

Also, may I send you a PM with my contact information so we can have a more direct conversation?
God bless and be well!

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I'd advise you to wait a little longer and see how affordable the new HBM Hale Plus 280 sq/ft studio will run you. That's probably going to be the fastest, easiest, and cheapest route to getting a place to live that's fully legal as well.

I agree with kalakoa in that I have seen plenty of unpermitted places that were quite nice, and my fair share of permitted houses that were dumps (junk cars, piles of used tires, etc).

It's when you have both that the neighbors have both the ability and will to call the county on you. At least in my neck of the woods, if you keep your unpermitted shack clean and uncluttered outside, and are polite, you're doing just fine. Somebody unknown to me actually dumped half a car right in front of my lot, and I had to put in extra effort to dispose of it quickly before I ruffled feathers.

Mahalo for the suggestion however I will pass on the HBM thingy. I have worked with Senior Oakland's Homeless Assistance Working Group and a few other sponsored housing initiatives and there is just too much politics and not enough common sense involved in these non-solutions. Likely ONE reason Senator Oakland left politics, she truly cares for people and is nothing I would call a politician.

I have important work to do, and the people have need of my assistance, so I would never put my homestead on hold waiting for such initiatives. Something very NICE permitted or non permitted, that works in harmony with nature will be constructed quite soon!

God bless and be well!