Protests in Hilo elsewhere in Hawaii - June 14th next

[randomq]

Punatang, you are confusing government control of free speech with peer group consequences for free speech. You can vote for who you like and say what you like. I can shop where I like. Freedom all around.

[Punatang]

Punatang, you are confusing government control of free speech with peer group consequences for free speech.  You can vote for who you like and say what you like. I can shop where I like. Freedom all around.

Not at all. You said you wanted to code and develop a system. I'm just saying there is already a template and code for that. 

The many examples of those types of things backfiring should give one pause though. Irony on steroids.

Personally, I think we need all of our small businesses here on The BI.  I could not care less who the owner of a business votes for, what they protest, what they prefer to do with their genitals, or who they pray to. I'm just really glad they are here and especially the ones out here in Puna.  I respect how hard it is and the courage it takes every day to run a small business. We need more variety not less. We need more contact, communication and understanding not less.  

I also respect your right to shop where you want and vote with your dollars and feet.  I truly appreciate how much you care and I admire your motivation to take action.

[randomq]

Ordinarily I would agree with you, and not care about personal politics. But some things are so dishonorable and so harmful that good people need to make their voices heard.

We usually let crazy uncle talk crazy, but once in a while he crosses a line and we send him home.

[Punatang]

good people need to make their voices heard.


They did!  We do that every four years. The difference now is the vilification from both sides aimed at both sides from the folks we listen to. The latest kills me. Exact same guy who said "no one is above the law" now says you don't arrest certain people because it goes against norms. I will honor you for saying either of those but where is the honor in saying both when it suits you?

There are people in Puna who legitimately believe in their heart that we should always help people by having a government organization give people stuff. They have what they believe are good reasons and for the most part they are not evil.

There are people in Puna who legitimately believe in their heart that you ultimately harm people by giving people stuff and if it has to be done, it should be done voluntarily by non-governmental organizations. They have what they believe are good reasons and for the most part they are not evil.

They each vote, in Puna, accordingly on this and 1000 other issues and they may never think about the issue that is important to you and you may never think about the issue that is important to them.

For the most part, neither are bad people, dishonorable or trying to harm IMHO. Both genuinely want everyone in Puna to have what they need, they just have very different ideas about how to get there and yet now they (we) are programmed, by people who want power, to go at our neighbors' throats over these types of legitimate differences.  We are told that the Punatics with different ideas are defective human beings. Gas is constantly being pored on every spark. It's insanity and we fall for it every time.

Good people should make their voice heard. People can't hear your voice when you are yelling at them. Please try to remember the last time someone was yelling at you and hurling insults.  How did it feel?  If someone is yelling at you and/or telling you you are bad, you shut down.  You are not open and receptive to their message. You are in fight or flight mode.  

If you want to influence someone you have to meet them where they are and accept them for who they are. Then they might listen. Even your uncle. JMO

[TomK]

Vibrations make sound...

I think vibrations are vibrations. Sound.. light.. any frequency.. requires a receiver to turn them into those things. Otherwise they are just vibrations. And sure you could say light is there regardless.. but really we don't know, because before we can even imagine it we're receiving.. ie converting the vibration to whatever we're experiencing..

The very definition of sound is vibrations leading to waves travelling through a medium. They exist whether or not you detect them. On the other hand, light needs no medium to travel through, so they are not the same. Sound is mechanical, light is electromagnetic.

[randomq]

Punatang, I don't think we can really discuss this in depth without breaking forum rules, but..

Consider all the crazy shit B.J.Penn has said. Denying the results of the elections he has run in, saying they were rigged and stolen. Arrested for DUI. Long time partner alleging physical and sexual abuse. Neighbor alleging sexual abuse.

Now imaging voting for him in the next election, knowing all of that. And then he uses the power of the state to go after all his political enemies, any law firm that has ever worked against him. Then he adopts a crackpot theory that we were all better off back in plantation days and he's gonna bring plantation jobs back to Hawaii at the expense of the taxpayers and small businesses... Etc...

I understand people have their own interests and issues, but some things can't be overlooked. Some means can't be justified by their ends.

[ironyak]

Punatang - There are people in Puna who legitimately believe in their heart that we should always help people by having a government organization give people stuff. ... There are people in Puna who legitimately believe in their heart that you ultimately harm people by giving people stuff and if it has to be done, it should be done voluntarily by non-governmental organizations. They [both] have what they believe are good reasons and for the most part they are not evil.

Ugh with the bothsiding. But to keep things local about government organizations giving people stuff, CivilBeat had an informative panel discussion last month on Childhood Food Insecurity In Hawaiʻi. In short, 1 in 3 families in Hawaii struggle with food insecurity, Hawaii Food Banks are facing demand not seen since the earliest days of the pandemic, and the cuts to USDA funding, plus likely cuts to SNAP, school lunches, and other federal food programs, is making it impossible for charitable organizations to fill the gaps and meet the needs of ~170,000 people in Hawaii each month. Kids that are hungry do worse in school and at achieving development milestones which impacts their health and well-being along with their long term prospects and earning potential.

But please, share the other side about the harms from the government providing food to kids in need in Hawaii, and what the good reasons are for doing so.

In the meantime, need to go check on what fruits are available without encountering a drone strike. (joking... but a mass of hungry people systemically deprived of economic options aren't going to just sit by and starve)

---

randomq - I think we're going to have to combine many resources to get effective coverage.
That FEC source is pretty interesting - also has data for top PACs. Does Hawaii have a business by owner search that can be easily cross-referenced or you have some other datasets in mind?

[MyManao]

The very definition of sound is vibrations leading to waves travelling through a medium..

I love it.. another Saturday eve at the good ol' PW Bar and Grill and the local wannabe comes in right on cue looking under every table, in every corner, for any suspicious charlatans, idiots, and scam artists that might be lurking.. ready to pounce on all the unsuspecting PWers, who themselves are distracted with the finer points of keeping it Hawaii, if they should ever utter an unflattering word..

And what do we get.. a frickin' puffed up cock crowing.. the very definition of sound.. as if he's the second coming of Christ almighty.. (I mean, come on, he does add an extra L to traveling so as to be sure everyone knows he's a member of the Double L club, but still he's just an old man in a cape)

Seriously Tom, the very definition? That's the sorta phase a wannabe uses when they are pretending to know.. or giving lectures to school children. So which is it? Are you pretending or do you think we're children?

Now, about those vibes.. not to suggest you sport dreadlocks, or could ever play a backbeat.. but still those vibes dude.. are you sure you got it right? I mean, the brother only said.. vibrations are vibrations before they are.. and no, instead of letting that one go by you gotta dawn the cape and pounce!

Well, bravo! You da man, bro. Though still just an old geezer in a tinfoil hat and a Walmart cape.. who never heard the Black Hole Blues

[Punatang]

Ugh with the bothsiding.

You really don't seem to understand how you initiate these reactions.  You start with disdain, you accuse, you post a hyper-partisan link about national politics, which actually speaks to my point about how sources of information "pour gas on every spark", and you try to steer a genuine conversation between two people who were doing their level best to actually see each other, off into the abyss. No thanks. Not honest. Not informed. Not good faith. Not interested. This is exactly why reasonable people can't have a reasonable conversation about things.  Kneift nailed it. I had really hoped to reset but you don't seem ready for that so, sadly, I'm going to pass. Life is too short.  

If you have no idea what the solutions are that you are asking me about, then you are not as informed as you want us to believe. You have not made an honest effort to consider alternate points of view. You are not a reasonable person to have a conversation with.  

I'm not a journalist and my conversation with RandomQ is not an article but if I was a journalist and my post was a news article, I would be guilty of impartiality not "bothsiding".  This would be obvious to anyone who made the effort to be informed and was being honest.

Meanwhile Lady Tang has also made a sign and we are both going to attend the May 1 event so that we can meet some folks with some misconceptions about us and hopefully build some bridges and show that we actually give two FOCs (fish of color) about most of the same issues. If anyone gives us $40 an hour compensation for attending, we will donate it to the food bank.

Have an amazing day Punaweb.

   

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

There are people in Puna who legitimately believe in their heart that you ultimately harm people by giving people stuff and if it has to be done, it should be done voluntarily by non-governmental organizations. They have what they believe are good reasons 

If there are people who believe non-government agencies can distribute large quantities of food, clothing etc. perhaps they could organize to provide these services BEFORE assistance is cut, to show it can be done, and once in place the government can then remove their programs?

So no one goes hungry in the interim?  I'd be 100% behind this concept.