HPP - Application To Dedicate Main Roads To County

[Rob Tucker]

Kalakoa, The code you cite relates to roads opened or platted after 1966. Most Puna subdivisions were approved by the county in 1959 & 1960.

[kalakoa]

Yes, Rob: subdivision roads are neither "platted after 12/21/96" nor are they "Roads in Limbo (built/planned by the State or Territorial government)".

Far as I can tell, the subdivision roads were not legally created, nobody is really responsible for them, and it's "too long ago" to do anything about it.

In theory, County should rescind the subdivision plats.

Maybe someone knows exactly what rules actually apply? The "public or private as circumstances warrant" situation is total crap, and the eventual lawsuit only gets more expensive...

[kalakoa]

How about a much clearer, more succint argument:

More paved roads means more cost, which translates directly into more taxes.

I don't feel like paying more taxes so that some other subdivision can have maintained roads.

Would the residents of HPP like to pay more taxes to maintain the roads in Fern Forest?

Either all roads become public, and everyone's taxes go up, or the residents who need their roads maintained can create an LID to pay for their own roads (and HPP is a great example of how this doesn't seem to be working), or all roads can remain "private" (and beyond HPD's jurisdiction).

[Rob Tucker]

Kalakoa,

As for taxes, the owners of property on substandard roads already pay taxes, particularly the Fuel Tax, and in doing so have been subsidizing the rest of the island for over fifty years. So the fact is that HPP residents (and others) are currently subsidizing Sunrise Ridge and Hilo (for examples).


Look back to Ord. 58 and read it. Interesting stuff. I'm interested in your opinion....

Here is a list of ordinances I researched which amended 58 or affected subdivisions over the years:

Amendments to Ordinance 58

1948 Ord. 61 Amendments to Ordinance 58

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/Weblink/D...x?id=58208

ORD 1949-077 Amend Ord 44 relating to Planning and Traffic Commission

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/Weblink/D...x?id=58225

ORD 1949-085 Subdicision of real estate

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/Weblink/D...x?id=58233

ORD 1950-094 Amend Ord. 58 Pavement of streets outside Hilo

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/Weblink/D...x?id=58243

ORD 1951-108 7,500 sf min. lot size

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/Weblink/D...x?id=58258

ORD 1951-115 Recognition and recordation of substandard subdivisions prior to 1948

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/Weblink/D...x?id=58265

ORD 1953-128 Amend Ord. 58, repeal Para 8, subsec A, Sec. 9 (road standards)

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/Weblink/D...x?id=58280

ORD 1954-149 Water requirements do not apply to Ag zones.

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/Weblink/D...?id=751728

ORD 1959-205 Charge the Planning Commission with creating a Master Plan

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/Weblink/D...x?id=58362


ORD 1953-128 is of particular note. It reads in part:

COUNTY OF HAWAII TERRITORY OF HAWAII
ORDINANCE N0. ~~
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 9 AND SECTION 16 OF ORDINANCE N0. SBa
AS AMENDED, PERTAINING TO THE REGULATION OF THE SUBDIVISION OF REAL
ESTATE IN THE COUNTY OF HAWAII
BE IT ORDAINED BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII
Section l Paragraph 7, Subsection A, Section 9, of Ordinance
No 58 as amended' is hereby further amended to read as follows
7. Pavement of streets and roads within the County of Hawaii.
All streets and roads hereafter constructed within
the County of Hawaii shall have an approved six (6)
inch base course and three (3) inch asphalt macadam
pavement or two (2) inch asphalt concrete pavement
which shall conform to the standards as set forth
by the Department of Public Works"

[kalakoa]

Directly supports my assertion: County should either pave all the "substandard/private" roads, or none of them.

Taxes are somewhat of a red herring: they're going up whether the roads get paved or not.

[Rob Tucker]

Note the language in the 1953 amendment:

"All streets and roads hereafter constructed within the County of Hawaii shall have...."

It is the county's responsibility, and perhaps just as important, liability.

[kalakoa]

The liability lawsuits will probably be more expensive than the pavement.

[Kelena]

If we can persuade the County to take over the main roads, then perhaps we will have the financial wherewithal to pave those roads for those who bought property on dirt roads and who now complain of "fugitive dust".

The tail is wagging the dog.

[Lee M-S]

And once the roads are paved, people will complain if they aren't maintained. And if they are well-maintained, folks will complain about speeders, and want traffic bumps. Why not just leave the roads unpaved?

That said, I wish my road were in better shape.

><(((*> ~~~~ ><(("> ~~~~ ><'> ~~~~ >(>

[Seeb]

The county taking over the roads is the right thing to do.
County corruption in the old days created the problem and they have been collecting taxes for something like 60 years while providing no services.
The build out # is close to 25, 000 people that would make it the only city in the country with dirt roads. If it's not solved now with some sort of cooperation it will end in a massive law suit in the future which the county would lose because it didn't even follow it's own rules