They must not have even fathomed that The Green Regime would possibly betray them, by choosing LNG over renewables for Hawaii's future electric generation needs. Stationary combustion sources produce over 36% of our state's Greenhouse Gas Emmissions. It's huge...
Technically they haven't been betrayed by the LNG proposal because their agreement was: "..As part of the settlement, Hawaii will develop a roadmap to achieve zero emissions for its ground, sea, and inner island air transportation systems by 2045, the year by which the state was already aiming to become carbon neutral..." https://www.reuters.com/legal/hawaii-agr...024-06-21/
This thread is about electricity costs and generation. Entirely scuttling the 12 or so diesel power plants statewide and starting from scratch just doesn't seem like a feasible plan to me. Instead, powering them by LNG while the infrastructure for renewables is developed sounds more realistic.
Apologies, I failed to attribute that quote and link, bringing the akamai kids and their transportation emissions lawsuit into the conversation, to Ironyak. Personally, I see how it is totally relevant to our conversation but since you, or your helper, do not, you can pursue your beef with Ironyak.
I'm sure the last two humans, baking in Hawaii will be comforted that you got The Green Regime's climate madness off the hook on a "technicality". I thought we only had one house council here at Punaweb.
If that "technically" comment does not perfectly exemplify for everyone why 20 year plans plans full of "technicalities" and loopholes will never be a match for price's ability to rapidly modify human behavior, then nothing will.
Entirely scuttling the 12 or so diesel power plants statewide and starting from scratch just doesn't seem like a feasible plan to me. - Durian Fiend
06-08-2026, 04:34 PM (This post was last modified: 06-08-2026, 05:19 PM by ironyak.)
terracore - I think there is a politics thread for posting rants... or whatever that was.
More just an observation on the irony of the naysayers of the Decarbonization Settlement now whinging about the cost of their fossil fuel lifestyle and/or cheering on the demand destruction as long as it's done by their political party and manages to kill some kids in the process. "Do not, my friends, become addicted to" dino juice and gas. "It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence!"
Punatang - They must not have even fathomed that The Green Regime would possibly betray them, by choosing LNG over renewables for Hawaii's future electric generation needs.
Well those plans are still not a done deal. As Obie pointed out back in 2018, the PUC still has a say, and it's not like the Hawai'i' keiki can't go back to court again to assert their rights under the Hawai'i Constitution to a clean and healthful environment (oh, look they already are).
Maybe it's all just a secret jobs program to train the youth of Hawai'i on how to do basic math and not make billion dollar mistakes, and how to take their concerns to court, repeatedly, where the dinos in favor of fossil fuels keep getting schooled.
“This deal was made behind closed doors. Nobody saw the math behind it. Then when some expert looked at it, then it found the billion-dollar blunder, right?” Moriwake said.
...
“I’m even more surprised now that they’re still, after being caught on this, saying that, oh no, we meant to do that. It’s still going to work out. Trust us, right? When really, at this point, they’re just hemorrhaging trust and credibility,” Moriwake said." (more at link - with Editor Peter Tang - any relation? ;)
(06-08-2026, 06:46 AM)Punatang Wrote: They must not have even fathomed that The Green Regime would possibly betray them..
While I agree with swapping out heavy fossils for light is a step in the right direction and one some may point to as an easy way to retrofit what we have to be ‘more cleaner' if not just out right clean, I imagine any agreement comes with a commitment that guarantees investors a period of time to recoup and profit on their investments. And therein lies the rub.
I think any commitment to LNG should come with the caveat that as soon as actual green alternatives are in place LNG would be phased out. For instance if a geothermal plant were to come on line and provide X amount of electricity the same X amount of the stuff generated by LGN needs to be decommissioned. And, while the state is agreeing to LNG they need to, with equal vigor, continue exploring other actual home grown green alternatives. In that way LNG is a rational intermediate step towards our energy independence.
Otherwise, without leaving the door open to becoming wholly self reliant upon green alternatives in as short a time as can, this push to embrace LNG appears to abandon our exemplary commitments to a clean energy future. Which is a shame, especially in that it gives fodder to the magasphere who always itch, sorta like Pavlov's dogs, to brand any Democratic government negatively. And of course, ‘comrade' Green gets the short end of that stick.
06-08-2026, 06:53 PM (This post was last modified: 06-08-2026, 08:52 PM by ironyak.)
For clarity, the Gov Green/JERA potential deal is for building a new 500 MW LNG power plant for $1.5 billion on O'ahu, which likely wouldn't be online for roughly a decade. Meanwhile, there's hundreds of megawatts of renewable sources with storage coming online each year (e.g. the solar+storage Ke'amuku project above Waikaloa, and the Mahi project on O'ahu - see the state's full list of proposed projects here) making such investments in distant LNG solutions increasingly unneeded and stranded assets.
Henry Curtis has an interesting recent analysis in which this potential LNG plan seems to fit in a larger JERA pattern of announcing big deals with unrealistic timelines and no commitments, and then quietly backing out when reality catches up with them. May all just be a dog-and-pony show for investors especially when the Environmental Studies and Contested Cases, with which is Hawai'i is quite skilled, makes JERA's 2030 timeline even more of a laughable suggestion.
Meanwhile, readily available renewable solutions will march on and increasingly save money for terracore and all the complainers and climate change denialists, which of course is the most important consideration involved. ;)
Exactly Ironyak. Thank you. It feels impossible to to teach these misinformed old dinosaurs any new tricks when they insist of carrying water for The Green Regime who sells us out with backroom deals for obsolete fossil fuels based on fraudulent numbers they brazenly cook up. Because their ideology has become their identity, the dinosaurs will clap like trained seals, while our future is mortgaged by their heros.
Hmm, more AI slop. Better get those LNG turbines online stat - need to power yet more ghoulish digital sockpuppets parroting made-up nonsense while pumping out yet more carbon dioxide, you know, for the grandkids in Hawai'i, because as Carlin actual said - "The planet is fine - the people are f#cked!" (just take a look around, maybe even in the mirror)
"How about those people in Kilauea, Hawai'i who build their homes right next to an active volcano and then wonder why they have lava in the living room?" - Carlin
06-08-2026, 09:45 PM (This post was last modified: 06-08-2026, 09:49 PM by Durian Fiend.)
(06-08-2026, 06:53 PM)ironyak Wrote: For clarity, the Gov Green/JERA potential deal is for building a new 500 MW LNG power plant for $1.5 billion on O'ahu, which likely wouldn't be online for roughly a decade. Meanwhile, there's hundreds of megawatts of renewable sources with storage coming online each year (e.g. the solar+storage Ke'amuku project above Waikaloa, and the Mahi project on O'ahu - see the state's full list of proposed projects here) making such investments in distant LNG solutions increasingly unneeded and stranded assets....
Those new projects are obviously not enough to meet the energy needs of Oahu, otherwise there would be no consideration of the LNG scheme.
Who the hell doesn't favor renewables over fossil fuels? (Besides our president) Punatang is clearly setting up a false dilemma here.
(06-10-2026, 07:18 PM)Punatang Wrote: Punatang is clearly setting up a false dilemma here. - Durian Fiend
Durian, would you mind backing that accusation up with some substance? Please provide sources. No making stuff up please. Thank you.
You said: "Consensus reality" on Punaweb, that Hawaii is currently ready and able to move on to renewable energy, has been defeated, by Durian Fiend.." and "..It feels impossible to to teach these misinformed old dinosaurs any new tricks when they insist of carrying water for The Green Regime.."
This makes it sound like since I'm willing to consider the natural gas scheme as an alternative to diesel then I'm opposed to developing more renewable energy sources for producing electricity, and that's definitely not true.
It seems to me that the Big Island has the potential for transitioning to all renewables fairly soon since we have abundant geothermal resources. As for the other islands, it may not be feasible in the optimistic time frame of less than 20 years from now. One of the problems is: Where will the new wind, solar or other projects needed to produce the necessary megawatts be located? Large tracts of real estate aren't readily available in the islands. Off shore wind farms, perhaps? At the federal level, financial incentives anticipated in the recent past have been scrapped. Naturally the cost passed on to consumers for new projects must be a consideration of policy makers. You're trashing Green without a full understanding of the available options to him. Guaranteed he'd prefer to see the state NOT continue to burn fossil fuels.
