The Bicker Board

[TomK]

So I'm changing this to another, much more important subject and ask why HPP doesn't have street lighting? Because we all know criminals like the dark.

[punikahakaiferret]

Sorry, inadvertently deleted my post instead of editing it; I thought what I was replying to had been deleted. Ha.

Kalianna, thank you for agreeing I'm not alone... :-)

...and Tom?

I'm not a he. :-D

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

HPP doesn't have street lighting? 

It’s starting.  Drive past the illegal non-functional mailboxes on 4th and Kaloli, or as it’s occasionally used - - skatepark.  Last time I looked there were four lights installed.  So the kids can now flip ollie’s and such at their $600,000 skatepark at night?

[Punatang]

HPP doesn't have street lighting


Maybe if it got some then the property prices would stop crashing.

[HiloJulie]

“HPP doesn’t have street lighting”

They needed those lights for the new Cockfighting Arena.

[kalianna]

Just bumping this up to the top in case anybody forgot that it was here. Itʻs very useful. Give it a try.

[ironyak]

Thanks kalianna - seems worth a try.

In reply to HiloJulie from here.

HiloJulie - Perhaps maybe, using all of your self proclaimed brilliance, your self proclaimed unmatched knowledge, your self proclaimed unmistakably high intellect...
I never proclaimed anything of the sort, that's you reading into things for reasons unknown. I share references I've read or listened to that are related to the topic so some facts and sources are made clear and distinct from any opinions - not sure why you find that boastful or threatening. I tend not to opine on issues of which I am naive, and prefer to just read what others have to say, but do try to keep up to date on issues that I care enough to discuss.

HiloJulie - trying to prove your superior intelligence ... that saying that you may do some or all of these things to various degrees is not the same as saying I specifically do this or I specifically do that.
I didn't say "may" or "some" so don't twist my words. I said in reply to your demands to "tell us what YOU have done to diminish YOUR carbon footprint." that "I personally engage in these to various degrees", which I do, "as if that makes any difference", which it doesn't. No one owes you jack shit - I just noted that I have some direct experience with the activities listed out and how easy or hard I found them to implement in Puna.

Regardless, your claims of some possible hypocracy is a bullshit rhetorical tactic, as my lifestyle (or that of the kids who won their settlement) doesn't matter to the truth of the claims being made. If you don't want to get called out for using bullshit tactics, then don't use bullshit tactics.

HiloJulie - you make this about me having to admit I was wrong.
You seem rather intent on doing that all on your own. Is it really that hard for you to admit that you may have made a mistake? Or just drop your misreading and move on? A lot of people would laugh this off with a self-effacing "whoops", or a "d'Oh", or a "yeah lol". People miss things, shit happens, it's no big deal - why does this seem impossible for you to admit to the point you'd repeatedly attack multiple other contributors?

HiloJulie - Instead of all this blathering from you trying to prove your supreme intellect, all you had to do is say, “yes, Julie, I am on solar power.”
I said I use solar - repeatedly - and no one is obligated to modify their word choice to suit your preference. That old banger of an Asimov article also had this to say: "I contend that the slogan "America's right to know" is a meaningless one when we have an ignorant population, and that the function of a free press is virtually zero when hardly anyone can read."

I know multiple longtime contributors here have taken issue with both the tone and rate of your posts. I would add my objection to you yelling at people in ALL CAPS, and going way off topic on threads. This community has been around for some time and has developed norms, but is prone to being abused as it lacks much moderation (sorry Rob, but I calls em like I see em :) It helps for new posters to actually acknowledge and adjust to some of the pushback when other members raise it if you want to productively participate.

But if you want to approach exchanges here like verbal fist fights, then expect to be treated like a verbal punching bag. You'll get what you give, and then some - it's really up to you.

[HiloJulie]

In reply to HiloJulie from here.

HiloJulie - Perhaps maybe, using all of your self proclaimed brilliance, your self proclaimed unmatched knowledge, your self proclaimed unmistakably high intellect...
I never proclaimed anything of the sort, that's you reading into things for reasons unknown. I share references I've read or listened to that are related to the topic so some facts and sources are made clear and distinct from any opinions - not sure why you find that boastful or threatening. I tend not to opine on issues of which I am naive, and prefer to just read what others have to say, but do try to keep up to date on issues that I care enough to discuss.

The point being made here is in reference to your whole attitude in this entire thread. You have at every turn denounced my way of life. (plus a few others) You conflate “lifestyles” with occupations. When I state that my occupation involved significant flying, you denigrate me for doing that, and go to state that I am just like the Nazi’s – following orders. I find not one damn thing you state as threatening, no, I find you to just more or less tying to be, thru sheer volume, the only and biggest voice in the room.

Should I have considered a different approach to my chosen occupation? Perhaps. But because my husband and I may have flown several hundreds of thousands of miles a year for our OCCUPATION, does not make me a terrible carbon belching person, which has been your entire mantra through the entre thread.

If my lifestyle was to fly all around the northern hemisphere just for fun, well, then that’s a lifestyle. Performing an occupation that requires that is a whole new dimension. What if you needed sudden surgery and the only doctor was in Oahu, but refuses to fly so he can be a carbon reducing citizen?

I probably would hit a preverbal brick wall to ask how you spent how ever many years on this earth earning a living to support your family and the carbon footprint you have created. But, I clearly understand that’s pointless to ask.

At any event, you have your opinion. I have mine. And I am quite sure you know what the saying about that is.

HiloJulie - trying to prove your superior intelligence ... that saying that you may do some or all of these things to various degrees is not the same as saying I specifically do this or I specifically do that.
I didn't say "may" or "some" so don't twist my words. I said in reply to your demands to "tell us what YOU have done to diminish YOUR carbon footprint." that "I personally engage in these to various degrees", which I do, "as if that makes any difference", which it doesn't. No one owes you jack shit - I just noted that I have some direct experience with the activities listed out and how easy or hard I found them to implement in Puna.

I agree. You, or for that matter, anyone doesn’t owe me jack shit. Further, I don’t owe anyone else jack shit. But here is your post for a refresher:

Original Post

And let me quote what you said:

“As for personal choice, as pointed out earlier, there are key lifestyle choices that greatly reduce your contributions to climate change (and yes, I personally engage in these to various degrees, as if that makes any difference)"

That is not a specific answer. More like a skilled politicians answer.

Further, while not one of your 4 key lifestyle changes, you state, and I again quote:

“Other options like adding solar (easy in Puna, even DIY in many cases)…”

Nothing specific about YOU being on solar.

Further, in your 4 key lifestyle changes, you state, as point number 3, and I again quote:

"3) Living car free (~2.4 tons CO2, more for the F150, Tacomas, and lifted truck folks…”

Which, one would insinuate by that comment, that you do not own a car, or live car free.

Yet, in this post Post 96 you state, and I quote:

"We do have a car, a decade-old little 35+ mpg sedan."

Which, is again, the gist of my banter back and forth with you. You speak like a well-versed politician, and then, to prove your point, you keep referring back to your original non-answer over and over. Eventually, answering the question.

HiloJulie - you make this about me having to admit I was wrong.
You seem rather intent on doing that all on your own. Is is really that hard for you to admit that you may have made a mistake? Or just drop your misreading and move on? A lot of people would laugh this off with a self-effacing "whoops", or a "d'Oh", or a "yeah lol". People miss things, shit happens, it's no big deal - why does this seem impossible for you to admit to the point you'd repeatedly attack multiple other contributors?

Name one contributor that I have repeatedly attacked. That’s a good one I must admit. Like asking if you still beat your wife!

As for being right or wrong, I feel I have explained my position on your nonspecific answers to my original questions. But you seem to think your generalized broad-brush statements are specific enough.

I have nothing to apologize for or admit wrongdoing. I was trying to get a specific answer, which you eventually did answer, after numerous needless recourse. You would have been a good adversary opponent in my profession. You don’t argue on the merit of your point, you argue to argue. I never once lost a case in my entire profession when the opposing side just wanted to argue to argue. In fact, it allowed me to create hundreds of additional billable hours that the opposing side eventually had to pay when they lost.

HiloJulie - Instead of all this blathering from you trying to prove your supreme intellect, all you had to do is say, “yes, Julie, I am on solar power.”
I said I use solar - repeatedly - and no one is obligated to modify their word choice to suit your preference.

Eventually you did, but initially, and on and on and on, you did not specifically answer the question. You initially gave a wishy-washy list of things that you “..and yes, I personally engage in these to various degrees, as if that makes any difference)”

I know multiple longtime contributors here have taken issue with both the tone and rate of your posts. I would add my objection to you yelling at people in ALL CAPS, and going way off topic on threads. This community has been around for some time and has developed norms, but is prone to being abused as it lacks much moderation (sorry Rob, but I calls em like I see em It helps for new posters to actually acknowledge and adjust to some of the pushback when other members raise it if you want to productively participate.

But if you want to approach exchanges here like verbal fist fights, then expect to be treated like a verbal punching bag. You'll get what you give, and then some - it's really up to you.

I think Rob does an amazing job at moderating his website. (Thank you, Rob, for allowing this fantastic forum – I calls em like I sees em!)

Any poster on PunaWeb who has an issue with me can speak directly to me – either here on a post – or IM Me.

Further, I have been called disgusting misogynistic names form several of these “long time” contributors, for simple differences of opinion, some of which, have been banned, or just shut up when I have responded to them. Except one. For now.

I could care less about “long term” contributors. They do not have one goddamn more right than I do to post here. Is PunaWeb “whites only” as well? Is there a secret handshake? A special apron I need to earn and the wear whenever I post on PunaWeb? Am I supposed to be washing someone's car so I can post? 

I can also imagine you are a staunch die hard first amendment adherent. Until you don't like what you hear.

If you, or anyone else does not like what I say, then don’t respond. Simple as that.

And I am quite sure Rob will decide to do what’s best, for his website, without ANY involvement from you or me, or all the other gaggles of certain posters who so wish they could moderate PunaWeb.

As for punching bag reference, try stop punching the bag! To be very clear, and even really specific, if you are trying to use me as a punching bag, either you are batting 100% swing and misses, or you are awfully weak.

And in the end, if you would just realize that your whole mantra of arguing just to argue has left you completely blind to the fact that I am on your side in climate change. I agree with you. Thats right. I just wish people could talk in specifics, but that's me. And you're right, you, nor anyone else owes me jack shit.

[TomK]

It's fascinating to see all the straw man fallacies that are brought up in threads like this. Maybe my next thread will be about PW's greatest logical fallacies.

[MyManao]

The point being made here is...

That everything Ironyak has said is to the point spot on. And all the words in the world, and obviously you think the more words used the more folks will think you know how to use words, will do nothing more than drown you in your own ridiculous defense. It's a haole tactic.. you know, the whole white man speak with forked tongue kind of thing..

If only you were mature enough to understand.. but hey, you got our wannabe.. touché