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There are a number of different Sovereignty movement groups.
And there is wide division of ideas between the different groups from one extreme to the other.
If activists want to move forward with any credibility they all need to get on the same page.
They should all get on board with the Free association model favored by Ka Lahui.
This seems to me to be the best way forward with the least amount of disruption to society.
Complete Independence is the most radical idea and it's never going to happen.
Hawaiians are always crying to unite but they can't seem to reach a consensus.
I think this is a bigger obstacle than the problem itself.
I wish they could all agree on one goal and rally around that. Then maybe we could get this thing done and end the bickering once and for all.
http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm%3...me%3DShort
One Thing I can always be sure of is that things will never go as expected.
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Most of my exposure to the Hawaiian nationalist movement(s) (I don't know if that is an accurate term) is limited to watching youtube videos of them taping the police when they are pulled over, and then arguing with the police for enforcing laws that they don't "recognize". Those are behaviors of anarchists, not nationalists. It would appear that those most visibly dedicated to this cause turn out to be the poster children against any possibility of it gaining legitimate traction. Until those problems are solved (and also that there isn't a single sovereignty group- if you can't unite the groups then how would you unite a Kingdom?), if punaweb.org is still running a hundred years from now, this thread might still be active.
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^ Yeah, Those are anarchists. And all they do is throw a wrench into legitimate activist's buckets.
Its all a big dysfunctional mess. Where are the Leaders
One Thing I can always be sure of is that things will never go as expected.
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A military coup is only illegal if it is unsuccessful. The military coup to overthrow the Hawaiian monarchy was successful, so it wasn't illegal. The military coup made all previous laws and government null and void. It was made even more legal by annexation.
If the Hawaiians were smart, they would stop focusing so much energy on the legality of the overthrow under Hawaiian monarchy law and start building the case against the Missionary Party that conspired and committed treason, acting as traitors against the US government and the US Constitution, and to seek reparations and compensation.
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*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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A military coup is only illegal if it is unsuccessful.
Something may not be right as Kaimana has said, but at the end of the day pahoated's comment transcends right or wrong, and succinctly describes how things work in the real world.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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94.3% voted in favor of statehood and 5.7% opposed it. Explain how this is a "military coup".
ETA: i before e except after c...
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One Thing I can always be sure of is that things will never go as expected.
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quote:
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
Þetta er ein af mörgum ástæðum af hverju Íslendingar drepið alla Skrælingja margar aldir síðan.
Enginn er væla um víkinga yfirtöku í dag. Lifi Eiríkur rauði og borða meira lutefisk!
Ironically, I've always thought of the Polynesians as the Vikings of the Pacific, or the Icelanders as the Polynesians of the Atlantic (and the Mediterranean and the Russian river systems - it seems they got around quite a bit)
Just call me Mike
Me ka ha`aha`a,
Mike
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quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
If the Hawaiians were smart, they would stop focusing so much energy on the legality of the overthrow under Hawaiian monarchy law and start building the case against the Missionary Party that conspired and committed treason, acting as traitors against the US government and the US Constitution, and to seek reparations and compensation.
I disagree. I think they should leverage the possibly dubious legality of the takeover in order to get as much as they can in negotiations. Do the best they can for their people and see what lands, moneys and level of self rule they can get in a peaceful negotiated settlement. This strategy has been used to the benefit of many first nations peoples on the mainland and may be quite successful in this case as well. In fact, this could potentially be an overall economic stimulus for the State as a whole. A complete reinstatement of the Hawaiian Kingdom is not going to happen.
Just call me Mike
Me ka ha`aha`a,
Mike
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see what lands, moneys and level of self rule they can get in a peaceful negotiated settlement
Exactly this -- however, County has already made it clear that any "self rule" must be secondary to the Code. (I don't have the cite, but there were concerns that any Hawaiian sovereignty would be used to "evade the building permit process".)
