Signs of a declining economy

[Obie]

It's highly probable that this person is a drug addict/alcoholic or this is her full time job.
If you want to help, give to the local food bank,church or charity of your choice that provides food for the needy.

[macuu222]

Yes..It could have been a scam....I've seen those people hanging out at the Walmart entrance with signs saying "Work for Food" or "Need Money to get home".....But my gut was telling me otherwise about this woman. She knew she didn't have alot of time in front of the store and she looked desperate. Safeway is usually pretty good about sending people like that on their way if they get wind of it.

[Carey]

Good News, you can help:
Along with the Food Basket, there is the Peanut Butter ministries that is a joint effort by many of the Hilo churches, there are the food closet & feedings up in Volcano, and many other efforts. Anyone can volunteer their extra harvest items, and even volunteer to go a gleaning with a number of the Harvest Hands that are springing up around the island.

ETA: Most of the groceries, including Safeway, are very active with the Food Basket & Peanut Butter Ministries. They are also very good at directing people in need to the agencies that can help, not just sooshing them away from the entrance. Some clients first introduction to the services that can help are from the local grocers.

[Laughing_girl]

quote:

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Originally posted by 808blogger

it will not be improving, we are now moving into the "new society".

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*** Curmudgeon alert *****

I believe it is improving minutely - positive changes that are not apparent to the naked eye yet. But you are so right, this depression will change the way we do things just as the others have changed the way people did things in the 30's.

We have a society now that is much more educated than in the 30's. We have the internet and such improved information exchange which is a GIGANTIC change to the 30's. I just read something that if Reagan were president today, the Tea Partiers would say he is a RINO. We have a society that is more diverse than ever before. We have a black man from Hawaii that is president. We have the two oldest, and powerful senators from Hawaii also that are not white. That changes Hawaii's perception to the rest of the US. We are in the news not just for Pearl Harbor or a vacation during the snow season.

A change from the 30's to now is that people took whatever job they could find then. I see jobs all the time go unfilled. Maybe they are not the $100K a year jobs. But seriously, $10-16/hr jobs that yes could help feed a family if as Jay says nothing unforeseen happens. It's easier to make $200 in front of Safeway. So you work and do small things until the bigger thing comes along. But also we need to keep well paying jobs here so there is the opportunity of bigger jobs. (Like Hawaiian Airlines moving much of their customer service to the Philippines???? Whats up with that??)

I believe part of the issue is people have forgotten what hard work is. Our parents and grandparents weren't afraid to get their hands dirty and work hard, or plant the victory gardens. Isn't that what the sustainability is all about now? Plant your own garden, buy local? Recycle, reuse. We know personally a group of twenty somethings that are unemployed that think they should be the CEO of some organic, green, low carbon footprint company at a salary of $100K or more with no experience and cant even balance a checkbook but yet have brand new I-Phone. Seriously, we have raised a bunch of people who think they are entitled to being provided for. In some ways this will be a blessing as the 0-16 yr olds will see a different world. I see this group being much more like my parents who were born in the depression of the 30's. I see more fiscal responsibility. My 13 yr old nephew is saving for his first house. (Okay he is saving money grandma sends him for his B-day but still it is a outlook that the very youngest generation has that is different from the 2 generations above them.)

I do see the people who are in need getting help from their friends and neighbors. Look at how Pam Lamont watches out for families all the time? Pam isnt alone - I could name a dozen Puna Webbers who out of the kindness of their heart have help families in need.

Okay so back to the homeless at Safeway. What a great place to get money as people walk in feeling guilty because they can shop and this guy cant. I think it would be great to bring them out some veggies, a box of pasta, a loaf of french bread, and some pasta sauce and say I cant do much but here is one dinner. Wonder what would happen? I have a feeling I would be better off to give them Food Bank's #/address and drop off one dinner there.

[csgray]

This story is from the mainland but I think it is pertinent to this discussion:

When my husband worked for the parks department in a city with amazing social services for the needy, there were many people who panhandled at major intersections by standing in the medians with signs asking for food or money. He had to clean up bags and bags of food people had given the panhandlers who just left it hidden in the landscaping. These guys wanted money for cheap beer, not food.

If you want to give food to hungry people, please donate to a food bank.


Carol

[MarkP]

I think there is some overlap with the rise of storage facilities. A few years back they were springing up all over the place. Why now? Why weren't there very many 20 years ago? Partly it is the economic downturn, with people having to move due to the wild real estate swings, and having to dump their collection of junk. People have always had junk though. I think today there is lots more junk. Everything is made in China and sold at ridiculously low prices. I sometimes wonder as I wander through Wal-Mart, how a profit can be made on some cheap utensil that costs $1.99 in 2010 dollars, when it had to be shipped all the way here from China then stocked by an employee who (I hope) gets health insurance. Even if they don't get full benefits my gut still tells me that there is an incredibly small profit margin on this junk so the difference is made up in quantity. Huge quantities of junk. Everywhere. Owned by everyone, even poor people who when they have to move mistakenly confuse what they payed for something with what it is worth, or who even more mistakenly confuse their decision to buy something at one point with a more general assessment of the value of that purchase. It can be very difficult to police yourself and go "Whoa, what was I thinking?" My niece came home from college with the concept of shifting baselines where for example people of today think a 150 lb ahi is big but a generation ago 300 lbs got the same reaction. People don't notice the creep towards junk because it is gradual. Same with the proliferation of cell phones, Ipods, and all the other trappings of status in the modern world. Gradually we have become accustomed to both the physical and emotional trappings of the modern world, so much of which is junk.

[Laughing_girl]

Although I referred to I-pods/phones, I do not believe they are junk necessarily. But if you can not afford to pay for housing and food, and leave your I-phone in your pocket when you went to swim, and expect that you will replace that first before food and lodging, I take exception to that idea. We all make choices about our comfort levels. If someone isn't comfortable without their I-phone, and needs to get that item before all else, then am I supposed to foot their food bill?

True example above. Person (related to me whom swam with Iphone) could not understand why that seemed unreasonable to me.

[missydog1]

I was addressing MarkP's post.

I think there is way too much of deciding what other people should value. People who have more feel somehow entitled to tell poor people what to value and how to live.

We all pay for each other's stuff in some way or another. The poor pay in some way to enable the employed. An economy with full employment will not run. It runs because there are have nots.

It is very easy to tell people to only care about food and shelter, while we ourselves acknowledge that we have our own needs and interests. What does an iPhone symbolize? Well, assuming the person has a service contract that he/she is paying on every month whether or not there's a phone, it's a meaningless expense to have the service with a lost phone. Also lost is the ability to communicate, to network, to seek work, to be in touch with family, to arrange medical care, to make contact in case of emergency on the road, and much more. Maybe someone wants those things more than an extra sandwich ... it's their choice.

Maybe some people feel like they are less second class citizens if they have a phone, or a way of playing music. Maybe the music feeds their soul and encourages them. It's very complicated when a person falls into poverty from a middle class life.

Assuming that people one does not know are hung up on status symbols is just an unfounded assumption. You can't extrapolate to the general population from knowing one or two people and their stories -- not when it comes to something as complex as the fallout from recession.

There are forums out there where people are sharing stories, people who are losing everything and don't know what to do. Many have had very unfortunate events pile on them, one after the other. There are a few people who are mind blown because they have to cut back on consumer toys and non-necessities, but they are the exception.

I'm just making a plea for less judging, more being glad if we have enough, less blaming people who don't have because of some idea that you personally are caring for them. If you were to really know where each of your dollars goes when it leaves your pocket, I would bet that much more of it goes to support wealthy people living in luxury than goes into the welfare system.

I am not a socialist or a communist or an anarchist, but I do think it's a wonderful <sarcasm> trick that the people who control 99% of the wealth on the planet manage to get the middle class to complain about the poor people when the going gets rough.

[Jay Bondesen]

'As for working at Home Depot, the people who work there are supposed to have some expertise about the area in which they work. It shouldn't be a job that anyone can do, and it doesn't pay well enough to lure someone from a construction job either. It's a nice job niche for a certain segment of the population, but it's not a job that's going to save the average Joe.'

That's kind of my point. Some people think that a full time job with benefits just won't help the average Joe. Or that the average Joe can't learn how to stock shelves. Not that the big chain store will pull us all out but hey, you need to start somewhere. For sure some people got a bad break and just need a hand up. It's also for sure that a few people just want a hand out. I can't always tell the difference but I try to help where I can.

Jay

[missydog1]

>>> Or that the average Joe can't learn how to stock shelves.
Is that the kind of job they find it hard to keep filled? Then I retract. Although lifting those boxes is a young person't forte -- everyone I know over 35 has a bad back.
I was talking about the people that I encounter at Home Depot. Most of them aren't running the register or stocking shelves. They're fielding questions about plumbing, kitchens, lighting, appliances, lumber, garden items, you get the idea. It's not like one of those stores where the most you expect from a floor person is if they can show you the aisle where that item is kept. Most people at Home Depot, working the floor, have product knowledge, and installation knowledge. Many of them acquired that knowledge in some trade they did before they got this retail job.