What is up with the cops out here???

[lquade]

carey such a good point. i guess i never really thought about that, do you think they would want a drunk vomiting in their car? no bars for violent people etc.. wow seems like the only ones making out are the police themselves with their car allowance. just never crossed my mind. lots of stories like this, lots of ill-will with police and puna. the commissioner certainly has an uphill battle with public sentiment..

[YurtGirl]

It shouldn't be considered 'their car' if the taxpayers pay for it. It is a perk of the job that they get to use it. And unless that officer only uses it as a speed trap, it should be fully equipped to handle passengers, violent, vomiting or otherwise.

I would think that the cops forcing citizens to drive a proven aggressive psycho to their jail would be an incredible liability issue for the county... Citizens aren't trained for that. What if they wreck? What if they end up beating the crap out of the guy? That's probably when the sane ones would get arrested...

[YurtGirl]

As noted, the guy had already assaulted the woman and this was the solution given by the police: To have her and her husband drive him 15 miles one way, down to the station and they'd follow as an 'escort'. When they got there, the police had the audacity to ask if they might just go ahead and take the guy to the Hilo PD. And they still weren't arresting him.

[oink]

Devils advocate: The cops didn't feel that they had a legit arrest. They felt for the complainant but believed their hands were tied. Delving into a very grey area, at best, they allowed and encouraged the use of their presence and "show of authority" to coerce the guy to "willingly" leave. Feeling they didn't have a legit arrest they did not want to take physical custody of the subject. As the subject had no way to leave on his own, due to intoxication, they encouraged the complainants to drive the guy away, again allowing the use of their "presence" to encourage good behavior of the suspect. They were hoping that when the guy was dropped (dumped) off in Hilo he would find a hole to sleep it off in and in the AM would find a new home. They cleared the call feeling they had found a solution to a very crappy call that had no perfect solution, knowing all the while that their asses were hanging somewhat liability wise. Or they could have been lazy.

I did have a person working for me who literally worked harder at avoiding work that what properly handling the calls would have been. I finally was putting paper on him/her, which he/she found out about, so he/she didn't come back for a year. He/she called in with an ailment, used up sick leave and vacation, and the special disability insurance we had. He/she came back the last day he/she legally could. His/her spot had by then been filled. He/she was transferred to a different unit. The powers that be (or were) felt it had been to long a time to still hang my paper on him/her. Ain't government/union work great!

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Alex]

What is the reason for cops having to use their own cars on duty?
No money to equip them with official vehicles?
Seems like $500 a month is more expensive than to buy used Crown Victorias or whatever.

[YurtGirl]

With all due respect Oink, BS. I don't mean that as a personal attack. When a cop doesn't even check an injury (BS), tells an assaulted victim that she has no right because it's not her property (BS), but if she'd like to keep everyone there until the wee hours of the morning (BS)... To even consider putting the suspect back into a car with the woman he had already assaulted (BS) and to do nothing about the terroristic threatening (BS)... if it had been one or two areas they slipped on, fine. But every possible area? No. There's no case for the Devil's advocate there. They were lazy, about to shift change, didn't want the paperwork, didn't want the guy in their vehicles, and didn't think these people knew their rights so they manipulated the situation to their own benefit. I'm no judge, nor will this case ever see one, but I can sure call a spade a spade.

[oink]

@Alex
1) With the officers covering their own repairs (which I expect they do) there would be no expensive Fleet Maintenance Division necessitated for the County which, aside from the building and equipment costs, would involve pensions, health care, etc. for the new employees. The alternative is to contract with a business to provide the service. That can be very expensive and I would think even more so on the B.I. with the limited competition and Good Old Boy network.
2) I expect the officers provide their own insurance out of the subsidy which would relieve a large expense from the County.
3) You don't want to buy used police cruisers as most are thoroughly worn out by the time an agency disposes of them. There are businesses that refurbish them but my own agency tried the refurbish route and it wasn't cost effective. We even gave a bunch of our wore out cars to one of the agencies that got creamed by Katrina as all of theirs had been destroyed.
4)Actually equipping out a standard cruiser adds a bunch to the basic cost above the cost of the vehicle. So money could be an issue.
5) The officer owned cars, which are therefore also used in the officers civilian life, put more radio equipped police eyes and ears on the road, essentially for free.
6) The officers will take better care of their own vehicle than they would any County owned vehicle resulting in fewer repairs and potentially longer useful life than what would be achieved with a County vehicle.
7) You have many more unmarked police eyes on the road which, theoretically, will be able to observe and subsequently take action on more illegal activity as the criminals are less likely to notice the police presence than if using fully marked cruisers.

Those are, I believe, your main justifications for the current program. The current program may well be cheaper for the County.

There are also plenty of good reasons not to use this type of program.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[oink]

@ YurtGirl
Could be.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Carey]

Just for those that want a little background of the marked/unmarked car debate, here are some of the news releases on the police car issues (interesting to note that wikipedia even has a picture of a subsidized 2 door model in their article on HCPD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawai‘i_Cou...Department ):

Starting in '03 switch for visibility of fleet:
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2003/09...tory7.html

'05 Debate on use of marked or unmarked:
http://www.government-fleet.com/News/Sto...estitial=1

'06 with the proposal to switch:
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/articl...80341.html

County SHOPO docs. with the '10 subsidy of $600/mo for patrol & $562 for detective:
http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/WebLink/0...Page1.aspx

'11 article of no plans to buy more marked vehicles:
http://hilo.hawaiitribune-herald.com/sec...anned.html

'12 marked cars deemed not cost effective:
http://westhawaiitoday.com/sections/news...chief.html

I am not sure what came of it, but I do remember that some officers wanted to still receive the subsidy even when using the marked cars... cannot find the Trib-Herald artlicle right now... know I almost had kittens about that one!

[HawaiiCorruption]

Anyone remember Mayapple McCullough and Citizens for Justice? This small vocal group were responsible for getting justice for Dana Ireland and Yvonne Mathison. So Jackson is right YurtGirl, YOU alone are not going to change anything. But, you are not alone, there are more of us than you would think. Change is easy when we unite together, as we've been doing at Hawaii Corruption. We can also safely say that your friends experience is typical. Actually they're lucky it wasn't worse. Contact us through punaweb and we can help.

For a glimpse into another case we are working on...

According to the missing persons darabase at NamUs.gov there are 61 missing persons in Hawaii. The similar population size states of Maine, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island have 10, 10, and 16 respectively. Massachusetts with 6 times the population has 64 missing persons. Illinois 12x pop 154 MPs. Texas 20x pop 591 MPs. California 28x pop 912 MPs. If HI had the same population as CA, then we would have 1708 misssing persons.

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