Puna Geothermal Fined for Violation

[opihikao]

punatic007 stated: "Interesting in that I got this info from retired head of Civil Defense and mayor Harry Kim. In community meetings he has said the location of geothermal on the Big Island is dangerous to the community."

Again, so what did Harry Kim do about it when he was in Civil Defense for over 25 years (incl. Director), and Mayor for eight (8) years?

He approved the expansion for PGV, Punatic007, while he was Mayor. Please do some homework before further comments prove you are completely misinformed. (ie. 10 mile international buffer zone that does not exist, Harry Kim said, etc.). Please.

Sure would like an answer to the question Leilanidude asks:

Punatic007 - Be truthful. Did you move within range of the plant after it was built - or before? How far away are you?


HiloPuna is spot on. Again.

JMO.

ETA: Disclaimer: We (my ohana) do not receive any royalties, payoffs, commissions, nor are any of our ohana employed by PGV.

[TomK]

When these comments and arguments come up, and they do quite often, I just can't help thinking of this classic scene from Fawlty Towers.

Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/tcliR8kAbzc

[ironyak]

Thanks for that - MAYBE IF WE USE ALL CAPS THAT WOULD HELP ?!?!?

[VancouverIslander]

Apparently, H2S is present at concentrations of 0.04% (http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/index.php) in Kilaueas emissions (so apparently it doesn't all get converted to S02). Additionally, S02 is often present in downwind communities 50km away at up to 5ppm, which is enough to cause numerous health effects (http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/index.php). This is all from Kilauea. A few pounds of H2S here and there from PGV is really a drop in the bucket.

Just call me Mike

[PunaMauka2]

ironyak - "Agreed, and I hesitated to even post this link. However, the state Dept of Health was quick to dismiss outright any possibility of health effects from the Aug 7th release. Without the official agency exercising their responsibility and gathering data, can you think of other sources of more reliable information?"


i understand that in the effort to proceed we sometimes go with what we feel is the most reliable option of a limited choice of less than perfect sources of information available. though if the range of sources is unfortunately limited to a single option of especially suspect integrity i would most likely refrain from citing it at all and just resign myself to the fact that clearly insufficient or no reliable data is available. at the very least i would want to have a most clear disclaimer in such cases. i think activist organizations of the more zealous type by nature tend to have an especially hard time resisting the temptation to manipulate information towards their agenda. they are most often insufficient sources for fact-finding and objective analysis.

not criticizing your overall effort to collect and sort through information here. quite the contrary, i think it's a good thing.

[ironyak]

leilanidude: Punatic007 - Be truthful. Did you move within range of the plant after it was built - or before? How far away are you?
HiloPuna: And seriously, Harry Kim??? You're kidding, right? That man has turned into a caricature;
opihikao: what did Harry Kim do about it when he was in Civil Defense for over 25 years (incl. Director), and Mayor for eight (8) years?

Looks like the ad hominem attack is contagious, even for those who are aware of the risk.

Why does Punatic007's location matter for what they say? Does the fact that I don't live in the area around PGV make me more correct when I say that locating geothermal immediately next to residents (regardless of the zoning shenanigans) is not in everyone's best interests? From Kahaualea to HGP-A to the 1991 blow-out to Iselle to PGV's upcoming expansion, how is this lesson not clear?


From Harry Kim (amongst many insights):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfz7riHxKWY
"Excuse me senator, but we cannot confuse the public on the difference between sulfur dioxide and hydrogen sulfide."

While head of Civil Defense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Wp59ieJ4s6o#t=158
"I rejected the Emergency Response Plan by PGV. The plan was inadequate, incomplete, and levels set for the hydrogen sulfide was way beyond acceptable. They submitted another plan and I rejected it again.

It is unacceptable that industry tells government, who are responsible for the people, when there is a hazard or an emergency. It is a government's responsibly to tell you what those levels are; it is your responsibility to meet it...

And you know what happened, they mayor relieved me of my responsibility... They took away my authority and approved the plan."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jfz7riHxKWY#t=196
"We failed you, from day one. We meaning all of government that you depend on to protect you. Yes we means Harry Kim too, I was in charge of Civil Defense... And we are still failing you very badly."

On Act 97 , while Mayor speaking to the Governor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jfz7riHxKWY#t=438
"First of all you took away 100% of local control."
...
"In a stroke of a pen, you allowed geothermal exploratory drilling to occur anywhere in the state of the Hawaii without permit except for conservation lands."

On Iselle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_uW2Dt7lh7s#t=732
"You've got to have an outside body, and in this case I think it has to be EPA, a federal agency to come in and make a very full and objective review of what went on."

Sounds responsible and reasonable to me.

EDIT: fixed links and had time to hunt down relevant quotes

[leilanidude]

Why does Punatic007's location matter for what they say? Does the fact that I don't live in the area around PGV make me more correct when I say that locating geothermal immediately next to residents (regardless of the zoning shenanigans) is not in everyone's best interests? From Kahaualea to HGP-A to the 1991 blow-out to Iselle to PGV's upcoming expansion, how is this lesson not clear?

Think of it this way. Would you like a Hilo, Kona, Oahu, or mainland resident telling you what is acceptable near your neighborhood?

[dakine]

Leilani Subdivision deemed not good because it's in LZ1 + PGV deemed not good because it's next to a residential subdivision = Everything's fine.

See, two wrongs do make a right!

[kalakoa]

Would you like a Hilo, Kona, Oahu, or mainland resident telling you what is acceptable near your neighborhood?

"They" have already been doing that for decades.

What I'm still trying to understand is: Leilani residents built on an active rift zone at highest risk for lava flow immediately downslope of a volcano, but everything is PGV's fault?

[lavarat]

H2S monitors are available on Amazon for $102 so it should be pretty easy to take measurements upwind and downwind of PGV and compare results.

http://www.amazon.com/BW-Technologies-GA24XT-H-GasAlertClip-Measuring/dp/B00APKZWRG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421861654&sr=8-1&keywords=h2s+monitor