Hawaii Passes Three Gun Laws

[dayna]

part one of the new rule pisses me off. Seriously. Part two, whatever. You do the crime you don't get guns. Part three scares me, a lot. HIPPA laws, who decides if you're too crazy for a gun? Who gets access to your medical information? I thought that was private, guess in Hawaii HIPPA laws don't apply?

Dayna

www.E-Z-Caps.com

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

The database won't lower gun violence. But... I have no problem with magazine capacity limits on civilian firearms.
...
the "no-fly list" to prevent people from obtaining a gun is flawed.

Do Hawaii's three new laws provide a perfect response to gun violence here and in the rest of America today? No. Do these three laws have limitations and built in weaknesses? Yes.

But how has doing nothing worked so far? Not that well as far as I can see, given that gun related deaths continue to increase every year. How many people are wrongly added to the no fly list every year? It can't possibly be as many as the number of people mistakenly killed by guns each year.

A system which allows 33,000 deaths by bullet* every year is inherently an enormously flawed system. When we attempt in some small way to defend those 33,000 people because the existing rules fail them and turn them into victims, the argument that a possible solution may have minor flaws which could infringe on a sacred right of the status quo; freedom, is nothing but a big pot calling a small kettle black. And let's not forget the freedom to own a firearm isn't the only liberty that can be lost to our citizens. There's freedom to walk down a street at dusk. Or freedom to see a movie, or dance at a nightclub without a worrisome doubt in the back of your mind that a crazy person can buy a semi-automatic weapon almost as easily as you paid for admission to the theater where you were asked for some kind of I.D. to qualify for your Senior Discount.

We can discuss the defects in Hawaii's new gun laws because they certainly are there, but in the process, let's not forget about the much larger imperfections in the system as a whole.

I want some freedom too.

* yes, I know, cars. But it's much a much larger and more complex system, millions? billions? of miles driven every day, with many more drivers and vehicles involved than shooters and firearms.

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

[leilanidude]

How may gun deaths in Hawaii last year were caused by those with legally acquired guns vs those that were acquired illegally?
I believe we are going after the wrong crowd.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

How may gun deaths in Hawaii last year were caused by those with legally acquired guns vs those that were acquired illegally?

I don't know.

I believe we are going after the wrong crowd.

Let's look at an existing example. All car drivers in Hawaii are required to have basic auto insurance whether or not they've ever had an accident. Sometimes, often, in society, regulation* applies to everyone.

* Including presumably, well regulated members of our militia

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

[HiloPuna]

Bravo HOTPE

2nd Ammendment in its entirety;
"A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
The first part, "a well regulated militia" meant a regularly trained and drilled military force comprised of civilians.
The next part, "to keep and bear arms" was a reference back to the 1st part, since the term "bear arms" was the use of firearms in the context of war or military/police service.

From an article on the subject ;
"There is not a single word about an individual’s right to a gun for self-defense or recreation in Madison’s notes from the Constitutional Convention. Nor was it mentioned, with a few scattered exceptions, in the records of the ratification debates in the states. Nor did the U.S. House of Representatives discuss the topic as it marked up the Bill of Rights. In fact, the original version passed by the House included a conscientious objector provision. “A well regulated militia,” it explained, “composed of the body of the people, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but no one religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.”
Though state militias eventually dissolved, for two centuries we had guns (plenty!) and we had gun laws in towns and states, governing everything from where gunpowder could be stored to who could carry a weapon—and courts overwhelmingly upheld these restrictions. Gun rights and gun control were seen as going hand in hand. Four times between 1876 and 1939, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to rule that the Second Amendment protected individual gun ownership outside the context of a militia. As the Tennessee Supreme Court put it in 1840, “A man in the pursuit of deer, elk, and buffaloes might carry his rifle every day for forty years, and yet it would never be said of him that he had borne arms; much less could it be said that a private citizen bears arms because he has a dirk or pistol concealed under his clothes, or a spear in a cane.”

When the Supremes ruled in "District of Columbia v Heller" THEY rewrote the 2nd Ammendment, strict constructionists that they were (looking at you, Ghost of Scalia) !

[terracore]

"A system which allows 33,000 deaths by bullet* is inherently an enormously flawed system."

I have to point out the irony that the majority of deaths by bullet are suicides and three of the five states which have legalized doctor assisted suicide have some of the most anti-gun people in them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_s...ted_States
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/upshot....html?_r=0

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

the majority of deaths by bullet are suicides

There are still over 10,000 non-suicide deaths in the US by firearms every year, which by any measure is still a monstrously large number. Far larger than anywhere else in the world:

According to data compiled by the United Nations, the United States has four times as many gun-related homicides per capita as do Turkey and Switzerland, which are tied for third. The U.S. gun murder rate is about 20 times the average for all other countries on this chart.

Hawaii has the lowest rate of gun ownership, as well as the lowest rate for gun death rate in the nation. These new laws will hopefully keep us at the bottom of that list. Take a look at the % of gun ownership to gun deaths, and see if you can find a broad correlation:

States with the Five Highest Gun Death Rates (Rank State Household Gun Ownership Gun Death Rate Per 100,000):

1. Alaska — 60.6 percent, 19.59
2. Louisiana — 45.6 percent, 19.15
3. Alabama — 57.2 percent, 17.79
4. Mississippi — 54.3 percent, 17.55
5. Wyoming — 62.8 percent, 17.51

States with the Five Lowest Gun Death Rates (Rank State Household Gun Ownership Gun Death Rate Per 100,000)

50. Hawaii — 9.7 percent, 2.71
49. Massachusetts — 12.8 percent, 3.18
48. New York — 18.1 percent, 4.39
47. Connecticut — 16.2 percent, 4.48
46. Rhode Island — 13.3 percent, 5.33

http://khon2.com/2015/01/30/hawaii-has-l...sis-finds/

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

[leilanidude]

Now, HOPTE, find out how many of those gun deaths were caused by someone who illegally had the gun to begin with.
Trying to criminalize the legal and law-abiding gun owner, isn't the answer that will reduce the deaths from those who obtain guns illegally.

Do you try and make it harder to get car insurance to penalize those that already obey the insurance law or do you go after those with no insurance? (you brought up the non sequitur, trying to compare auto insurance to gun ownership). Frankly, with over 20% of this island driving without insurance, I would like to see this issue resolved. Hawaii just doesn't need any additional gun restrictions or legislation.

[terracore]

"The nine states that rank lowest in terms of gun prevalence are the very same nine that rank lowest for suicide rates. Similarly, the three states top-ranked for gun prevalence can be found among the four states ranking highest for suicide rates."

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazi...revalence/

[leilanidude]

Interesting, terracore.
If I am not mistaken, the top 10 in that list all have Indian (Native American for the PC crowd) reservations.