Puna Astronomers, have you seen the firmament?

[kimo wires]

Just make him a tin foil hat.
And assure him its going to be aurite!

[TomK]

Trying to explain things rationally to this type of person can often be fruitless. I could point out a number of reasons there isn't a firmament holding back biblical waters, but they would just say all the data are fake and made up. The satellite TV dish experiment would be enough to convince most people but if you're so firmly set in your beliefs, you'll find another reason to disbelieve what you are seeing.

I would certainly hope they would go to an observing session at the VIS and talk to the volunteers. I doubt if any would happen to know when a satellite is passing overhead, but they'll certainly be able to tell your friend to wait a few minutes while looking at the sky and they're bound to see the odd one. However, even then they'll probably just say it's an aircraft, even if they see it enter the Earth's shadow (e.g., it's a military aircraft and simply turned its lights off).

I understand the frustration. I've been dealing with people like this for nearly three decades. The field of astronomy or space attracts them like bees to honey.

Edited for clarity.

[ericlp]

when I was a kid... the only way one could communicate to the mainland was via Satellite. Back in those days, we had to find pins (6 digit pins) to use to make long distance phone calls. This was before the fiber line was installed.

Anyway, the technology was old and the delay was about 1-2 seconds. Sometimes it made communicating on the phone fun. A lot of times there was an echo as well. I use to bbs on a 300 baud modem. So when you pressed the letter "A" the computer would send the signal to the computer then it that receiving computer would verify that it got a letter "A" and well, it took almost 5 seconds for the "A" to show up after all the handshaking and latency was worked out. So yeah, back in the day, without satellites you were screwed if you wanted to communicate to the rest of the world.

But, even all the proof in the world, aren't going to convince these people... Just like flat earthers and Chemtrail enthusiasts it's pointless to try to tell them otherwise. Just let them believe in their non sice world what they want to believe!

[TomK]

Unfortunately, there are people with significant influence who also act this way and have a say over funding science, even the observatories on Mauna Kea. Sometimes they can't be ignored.

[TomK]

PS. Whenever I see threads like this, I'm always reminded of this sketch featuring the late and great Peter Cook.

https://youtu.be/-hJQ18S6aag

[SBH]

randomq, please ask your friend to join punaweb. I love comedies and this would give me an excuse to eat popcorn every night.

[terracore]

For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEB7O1K1ZXI

eta: youtube

[DTisme]

TomK - ha! Thanks - now I have to watch the whole 1979 Policeman's Ball. Didn't realize Rowan Atkinson's Headmaster piece was from same show. I think his Welcome to Hell bit is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

terracore - So funny - I stared at the world is hollow line like "how do I know this??" then watched and was like, "oh yeah, that guy."

[TomK]

My apologies for placing such a terrible burden on you.

[DTisme]

SOMEbody's gotta do it!