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gypsy posted this comment on the TMT thread. I hope he doesn't mind but as it concerns Ka'u and feral pigs, not telescopes and Mauna Kea, I thought I would re-post it here as a separate topic.
For anyone who wishes to participate in the weighty (up to 300-400 pounds?) discussion of Sacred Pigs in Ka'u District:
“You’re eradicating a Native Hawaiian religious symbol,” Dombroski said of the plan to rid the fenced parts of the forest of the pigs. “You’re eradicating a religious ceremonial object. Its analogous, as matter of fact, to desecrating Christian sacraments.”
gypsy69 said:
The War on the Hawaiians continues as more of their lands and rights are consistently taken away.
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2017/0...eme-court/
I would rather be able to hunt, gather, teach and provide than support the TMT. The state is irradiating the Hawaiians and their way of life, enough is enough already. jmo.
(It's) what the existentialists called "awful freedom" the reinvention of irrationality by marginalized people, just in order to spite science. -Elif Batuman
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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Send all the Hawaiians who want to live a subsistence lifestyle over to Molokai and call it a day.
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Funny how it all turns into the same tired argument.
"They're destroying our native way of life", said one local, as he cashed his disability check to buy Bud Light at the Walmart. "It's desecration."
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The Polynesians didn't bring the pigs here to hunt them. Meaning that they didn't beach their little boats and let the pigs loose to run away. Hunting pigs came much later after enough had escaped captivity.
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Think I'll opine on something I have noticed regarding the link between native Hawaiians and their connecting back to the land--an idea sometimes touted as a reaffirmative of native culture.
Seems the dominant folks who really connect with the land are to so-called hippie types (pardon the stereotype) who live in small cabins and spend much time doing their self-sufficiency trips with their small gardens. And wearing mostly old clothes. And having a low level of material culture. Often no TV. Sometimes not even a car.
Have gotten to observe quite a few of these folks over the years. Theirs is essentially a voluntary simplicity philosophy.
Native Hawaiians, I've observed, prefer not to live without cars. And they like trucks. Big trucks. Sometimes used for hunting and fishing, to be sure, but they also seem to prefer houses in standard subdivisions with standard material culture.
When it comes to seeing who is not just talking about connecting with the land, but walking the walk, the native Hawaiians, generally speaking, are not on top of the list, IMO.
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As a resident of Ka'u, the pigs usually don't cause any problems, they just munch on the cane grass and hide out in the forest. I've seen them once in about three months.
Aloha
Aloha
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$.02
They will never totally eliminate pigs from any large area. They're like large rats and will survive. They reproduce rapidly. They need strong downward pressure on their population.
No doubt pig hunting was (is?) culturally significant in Hawaiian culture.
Why should it be expected of those wanting to preserve a unique Hawaiian culture that the preserved culture be that of ancient Hawaii.
Why can't they want to preserve a unique culture that is modern, having changed with time like most others but include some old traditions.
They shouldn't be required to be subsistence farmers or hunters to enjoy farming or hunting. Oh, and isn't Spam pig?
On thee other hand I have very little support or sympathy for the TMT nuts or those advocating for an new Hawaiian kingdom. And anyone collecting welfare or EBT should be looking for a job.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
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Well said, Oink. The problem I have is when those defending hunting imply that it was done in ancient Hawaii on any regular basis as though there were pigs running amok like there are today or when those screaming about ancient Hawaii arrive at the protest in a huge jacked up fuel guzzling monster of a truck, leaving a trail of empty Dorito bags.
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Putting aside the fact that the TMT would not prevent anyone from hunting, gathering, teaching and providing, I'm a little puzzled by the following argument. As Leilanidude points out, it's extremely unlikely the first Hawaiian's brought pigs to Hawaii for hunting, rather, it's much more likely they brought them as a food source to be kept in captivity. On the other hand, ancient Hawaiians used their knowledge of stars to navigate the Pacific and the heavens played a large part in the ancient culture (e.g.,
http://www.imiloahawaii.org/72/hawaiian-starlines) and continues today.
So why is hunting pigs OK but astronomical observatories on Mauna Kea bad?
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Given how little pig hunting was done in ancient times and how many non-Hawaiian hunters there are, there is nothing particularly Hawaiian about it.
