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I've been biting my tongue on this topic since I was stopped at the light just after it happened. Only one cop had arrived as people were trying to help this poor guy by giving him CPR. Within seconds, the ambulance and other police arrived. The ambulance called him almost immediately upon their arrival. Next the police waved me through the intersection and I continued on and passed by a second time about ten minutes later after running my errand. I did not see the crash but I was shocked that the ambulance did not at least transport him. He was left in the middle of the road in a sheet with a few police cars around him trying to block the view (not very well). If they are so concerned about the scene, evidence preservation and investigation, they why would they put their cars in the scene contaminating or destroying the evidence by driving over it. This was a major felony and I understand a investigation needs to take place, but have some DAMN DECENCY!!!!
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Decency was provided by throwing a tarp over the victim. I assume they were waiting for the medical examiner to show up and say basically.."he's dead".. and IF that is the case, why does it take so long for that to happen.
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They were probably mostly waiting for a THI (Traffic Homicide Investigator) as not many officers have that training and certification. There probably wasn't a THI on duty or readily available and due to the nature of the crash they wanted it done right. Then they were probably waiting for the investigation to be complete. The policy of waiting until investigation completion before moving a body used to be common but many agencies have decided that it isn't worth the PR issues and have abandoned that and after initial pictures, markings and measurements the body is moved. Even if already on another call I can't imagine the coroner taking more than 2 hours to show up. Of course they might not have even called for the coroner until the THI had arrived and then released the scene. I don't know why the victim was pronounced at arrival at the hospital, if that was the case. The responding EMT, if called, should have been able to pronounce. As far as that goes, the Officers on the scene should have been able to pronounce if obvious. Just a guess as this seems to be a continuing concern. I don't know HPD policy or even if a Coroner responds to transport but I'd think they do.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Posts: 1,557
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Lack of training is a good a answer as you could get. Paramedics should have the authority to declare a person dead. As far as crime scene goes, with modern technology(cell phone cameras... camcorders...tape measures) they should be able to document a scene within minutes not hours.A gratuitous picture of the body in place of "departure".. and then whisked away would be ideal.
As an after thought, can they not afford chalk to make an outline of the body. (It's really cheap at walmart).
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Talk to an honest local cop about accident investigation (especially fatalities) and you will learn that the police procedures and call for far more officers, officials, and running around the scene than is necessary to do a good job. I have been told that by no less than three officers who live in HPP and have to hear about the closures on 130 from their neighbors. Two of them also mentioned union work rules as a problem, but that was a more generic reference to a wide range of duties where one officer could get the job done when two or more were required to be sent.
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oink - the initial paramedics/ambulance arrived quickly after the accident and then left. This incident was thoroughly fouled up.
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Is it the Big (tiny) Island issue? Did someone have to drive from Hawi or something?
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quote:
they should be able to document a scene within minutes not hours
A THI is much more complex that you apparently realize. The top schools for the necessary training will be on the mainland and very few will have that training. Most won't have an interest in it. Any well trained cop can work a regular crash and there will be local or State classes for non fatal crash investigations. Not true for a THI if done professionally. The initial on scene will be time consuming and will likely involve even more on scene later after the crash is cleared based on initial measurements and markings. Followed by hours of crash report completion. A fatal crash where a vehicle has left the scene will complicate things further. That said, many agencies are trying to speed the process up mainly due to the likelihood of further crashes caused by the congestion resulting from the original. However, it's not as quick and easy as you appear to think it is. I'm not saying local policy doesn't screw things up. And an average everyday crash should often be doable in not much more time than what it takes for the wrecker to get there.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Posts: 145
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Joined: Feb 2017
Sorry oink, I don't buy the police making excuses for other police. Tell that that garbage to the family who's loved one was decomping in the roadway for several hours.
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I don't actually think too highly of HPD but some of you aren't aware of just how complicated a THI is. I'm not making excuses. I've had to supervise traffic cops that were THI's but it's not something I was ever interested in pursuing. Way too tedious for me. HPD may be a bit behind on their policy as to leaving victims at the scene but I'm sure they aren't alone. Where I worked that was the case quite a few years ago but they adjusted the policy a while back. However, on a THI they will still be there a fair while. You're free to believe whatever you want though.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
