Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045

[Durian Fiend]

Does all life include vegetables?

And you call yourself a scientist? What a joke.

Neil deGrasse Tyson has posed the same question.  It's not a joke.

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And if we don't change our ways, maybe the 2080s!

That’s right! As Charlton Heston tried to warn the good citizens of the future, “Soylent Green is (spoiler alert)!”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UPDUpjkHg0

Soylent Green is certainly renewable, and what we’ll get for breakfast, lunch, and dinner if we use up the more preferable resources now.

Finally someone gets it.  WE are the carbon they want to reduce.

Who is "they"?

"other renewables" referred to in the chart previous posted would be solar, wind, and geothermal.  Basically everything besides hydro power, and I believe hydro includes tidal energy.

[MyManao]

Neil deGrasse Tyson..

Points out that all life.. in an effort to put vegans in their place..

Whereas our wannabe is just being a jerk.

[terracore]

"Speaking of all life being “sacred” did anyone catch the Pride Festival yesterday?

Ironically, the theme was “Celebrate Life”

But for the two good catholic protesters who showed up to promote “gods” word, where this claim of all life being “sacred” came from, proved that ALL life really isn’t “sacred.”

No, if your gay, you need to “repent OR PERISH!”"


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Having never been Catholic I'm just guessing here based on how I understand the grammar.   You seem to be confusing sacred life with spiritual life, in that the Catholics believe all life is sacred (don't murder babies) with the message "repent or PERISH", meaning judgement in the afterlife.  I've seen your posts, you are intelligent, you know the difference between the two.

[HiloJulie]

Having never been Catholic I'm just guessing here based on how I understand the grammar.   You seem to be confusing sacred life with spiritual life, in that the Catholics believe all life is sacred (don't murder babies) with the message "repent or PERISH", meaning judgement in the afterlife.  I've seen your posts, you are intelligent, you know the difference between the two.

Oh, believe me I do. I truly know the difference.

However, in as much as the bible does not really define the word perish per se, its use varies quite a bit.

But having said that, the biblical use of the word perish is most commonly referred to be the "end of life." Most interpretations apply that to the spiritual life of a person. But complicating the issue is that there are also references in the bible as perish meaning end of human life as well as the end of their spiritual life. Passages such as "die in a ring of fire" for example. 

Now then, regardless of life being defined as sacred and/or spiritual, protesting a gay person to renounce who they are and "repent, or perish", is really wishing that the sheer existence of that person should be completely eliminated - either as human flesh, or, if not being put to death for being gay now, but only after their natural death, then when they transfer to their spiritual life. Or both. No room for the gays in heaven. (Or on earth as some think)

[TomK]

Does all life include vegetables?

And you call yourself a scientist? What a joke.

They consume things, react to the environment, grow, reproduce, and die. Perhaps you would explain why that doesn't mean life? Secondly, are bacteria or viruses sacred? I believe you avoided answering that question.

PS. "NASA scientists believe they have found a way to predict the color of plants on planets in other solar systems. Green, yellow or even red-dominant plants may live on extra-solar planets, according to scientists whose two scientific papers appear in the March issue of the journal, Astrobiology. The scientists studied light absorbed and reflected by organisms on Earth, and determined that if astronomers were to look at the light given off by planets circling distant stars, they might predict that some planets have mostly non-green plants."

It's hard to understand how something can live if it's not life.

https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-n...r-planets/

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Neil deGrasse Tyson..

Points out that all life.. in an effort to put vegans in their place..

Whereas our wannabe is just being a jerk.

No, I asked you questions you've avoided. As a reminder, this is what I posted in response to you saying, "Yep, we need to recognize that life, in all its forms, is sacred. And live accordingly." I posted this:

"That's one hell of a hurdle to overcome. First, you need to show that life exists due to some supernatural being, and that being said, all life is sacred. After that, you'll have to define life. Have you ever taken an antibiotic medication? If so, you've killed life. In the past, you've said you have cats. Have you stopped them from killing anything? Even a fly or spider? Why would a creator create a universe or world with a food chain with predators at the top? Where does your instruction come from other than yourself?

PS. Does all life include vegetables?"

[kalianna]

"Green, yellow or even red-dominant plants may live on extra-solar planets..." Just like earth. Consider for example coleus, red ti leaf plants and of course all the green ones. I wonder how much that study cost?

[TomK]

"Green, yellow or even red-dominant plants may live on extra-solar planets..."  Just like earth.  Consider for example coleus, red ti leaf plants and of course all the green ones.  I wonder how much that study cost?

Well, the one issue is we don't know if Earth is unique or not, so just using Earth as an example is pretty poor science. We have no idea if red ti leaves exist on other planets. All the Earth tells us is that life exists in our universe. Anyway, I believe this is the original research paper - https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/ast...89441/full

The authors' information is there, so I suggest you contact them if you're interested in the cost. I note you say, "Green, yellow, or even red-dominant plants may live on extrasolar planets," so what is your opinion about that, MyManao?

[HiloJulie]

I'm going to defend Neil deGrasse Tyson here, in that I am a big fan of him!

What Neil is saying is about vegetarians is more or less being directed at vegetarians who claim they are vegetarians because they are against killing animals. He is not against vegetarians in any way, he is more or less pointing out the somewhat hypocrisy of saying killing animals to eat is wrong, but then eating vegetables is also killing a living thing.

Unfortunately, I can't find him discussing this topic without it being part of some type of comedy routine. So, I found this clip from about a year ago from the Steven Cobert show - and while its rather funny, he brings up some really interesting ways to look at and consider - ALL THINGS LIVING. And dying.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

in that the Catholics believe all life is sacred (don't murder babies)

Most Christian religions claim to follow the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” but in practice there are huge loopholes.  Killing foreigners is OK in certain circumstances, killing people who practice other religions also OK and even justified when God is on our side.  Killing fellow Americans if they committed a crime is sometimes allowed.  

[ironyak]

punikahakaiferret - I do want to thank you for introducing me to the word "solarpunk" with the hyperlink to Wikipedia...
Ah, no worries, I'm glad someone is learning from these exchanges and solarpunk is pretty neat and making some headway with its critiques and cozy aesthetic showing up increasingly in entertainment, even, somewhat ironically, a recent Disney film. While the term is a bit new, its combination of old practices like gardening/permaculture, regenerative design, open-source, positivity, DIY, anti-authoritarianism, decentralization, etc, seems like a natural fit for Puna.

punikahakaiferret - I try not to get involved in the "back-and-forthing" and such on here
Yeah, that's likely the smarter choice, a lesson I tend to forget that leads me back to posting on PW.

Quote Asimov: "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States..."
Retort: We'll aren't you just some mister smarty-pants with your links, and evidence, and what not.
Reply: Umm... Touché? (internal dialog: Get Out while you can, the the calls are coming from inside)

HiloJulie -  Telling somebody that they are “slow on the uptake” because they rebutted to something you said, well what does that say about you?
I didn't say you were being slow on the uptake because you rebutted something (curious to know what you think that was exactly), but because it's tiring that you keep asking the same questions already answered. Yes, Julie, for the umpteenth time, I have solar, does that make me a pure enough vessel for you to finally listen and adapt to what the science has been saying for 50+ years?

Durian Fiend - Who is "they"?
You know - they, them, the ones out to get you, fill in the blank (WEF, Soros, the feds, satanic democrats, woke mobs, people of color, immigrants, jewish people, LGBTQ folks, and so forth depending on your conspiracy of choice).

Maybe this cross-generational eco-anxiety will at least lead to some new entertainment - stories of people with diverse skin and hair colors wandering the outlands harvesting the carbon of the old to build their carbon-fiber, gay communist, rainbow communes. Sort of a Logan's Run meets John Waters meets No Country for Old Men. I'd buy that for a central bank digital currency!

randomq - Hawaii should become a medical specialty and retirement community ... Get medical tourism going, where people fly in from around the world for specialty care.
It's an interesting idea, although a shrinking market even world wide, yet a crafty way to bootstrap better healthcare options for locals. Perhaps if they traveled by sail, or even airship, everyone would win longterm. (and no that's not some implied support for hydrogen-based travel, we've seen how that goes over like a led zeppelin)

Oh look, we've just got the earliest Category 4 Atlantic hurricane on record, and here we're arguing about whether or not vegetables are sacred... gotcha... Maybe time to Learn to Stop Worrying and Love the Great Filter? ;)