Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045

[HiloJulie]

First and foremost, I will say that the geothermal power to date here on this island has been the textbook example of gross incompetence, greed and sheer stupidity. Coupled with the "deity" issues.

Putting a geothermal power plant in the middle of a residential neighborhood is a grossly incompetent as one can get when there are numerous other places much more suitable. I have ALWAYS said that - be it geothermal or even waste to energy - "IF DONE RIGHT............" Nothing with geothermal power here on the Big Island has ever been done right.

But the hypocrisy on this subject is astounding. 

Take me for example. I have been made out to be the biggest thing next to "Satan" on this thread simply because my occupation required tremendous amounts of flying jet planes. And yet air travel is responsible for 2.5% of all manmade carbon emissions causing climate change.

And yet fossil fuels used for electrical power generation are responsible for 40% of all manmade carbon emissions causing climate change today.

But, right in our back yard, we have the potential to tap into a reserve, again "IF DONE RIGHT" that could virtually eliminate the need of burning ANY fossil fuels.

But, oh no - we can't do that!

How's about we look at this issue:

So, I saw this news about Google’s need for “data center” power consumption greenhouse gasses are up 48% since 2019. Granted it’s mostly due to AI Operations, however, it got me to thinking.  https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/03/tech/goog...index.html

As you sit in your home, and let’s just forget how your home is powered at the moment, but you turn on your computer, tablet or iPhone. Where did you but it? Walmart? Apple Store? Verizon? Amazon?

Well, it was made in a plant somewhere in the world, most likely China, and in a huge manufacturing facility that runs 24/7, sucking electricity.

Then it was packaged and shipped. And if by Amazon, may have been in a box in a box in a box. But it was shipped to the store or to your door. In a ship and/or plane and/or truck. All burning fossil fuels.

Hopefully you recycle or reuse the packaging, or you just toss it in the dump.

You turn your computer, tablet or iPhone on and connect it to whatever form of internet connection you have. All online that runs 24/7, sucking electricity.

You type in Punaweb.org which takes you to a website that resides on a server somewhere in this world that is online that runs 24/7, sucking electricity.

You can make your post and you can embed any number of links to any of the tens of millions of websites that reside on thousands of servers all over the world that are all online that run 24/7, sucking electricity.

You can even do my favorite thing and embed a YouTube video that resides on hundreds of servers all over the world online that run 24/7, sucking electricity. Also consider that YouTube commands 2.49 BILLION active monthly users alone.

All of this is possible through billions of dollars in equipment that is either made in a huge manufacturing facility that runs 24/7, sucking electricity or once made runs 24/7, and sucking electricity or both.

Further, it is also possible by the employment of hundreds of thousands of employees worldwide – who all consume electricity.

And some of those employees are required to cross the globe in jets on a weekly basis just to keep it all running so you can watch you cute YouTube video of a cat snuggling a giant German Shepard.

As well as the owners of some of the companies who provide all of this – albeit in their Gulfstream.

So, maybe we turn off the computer, tablet or iPhone?

Yeh, right. Hypocrisy abounds!

[MyManao]

Putting a geothermal power plant in the middle of a residential neighborhood is a grossly incompetent as one can get when there are numerous other places much more suitable.

Oh yeah? Wow, I had no idea. Maybe you'd like to tell us where? And, while you're at it, please explain the history of geothermal here. Where it began, and how it developed into what we have now. Sheesh, you might want to recount the many court cases, the contested case hearings, the different organizations and the National Park's role in all this. Literally, whatever happened to Puna Geothermal Committee? Didn't they turn into a political action group? Or was that just Russell's thing?

[ironyak]

HOTPE - Pot of hot water...
The "plop" word choice is fantastic/subarashi sensei ホトペ! Liked it better though at the end - no plop!

MyManoa - Oh yeah? Wow, I had no idea. Maybe you'd like to tell us where?
Trying to teach pig
to sing, will just waste your time
and annoy the pig.

(PS - What did happen to the Puna Geothermal Committee / how'd that affect things today?)

HiloJulie - And yet fossil fuels used for electrical power...
Points with many hands,
hungry ghost consumes whole fields,
blames mice for few grains.

[HiloJulie]

HiloJulie - And yet fossil fuels used for electrical power...
Points with many hands,
hungry ghost consumes whole world,
blames mice for few grains.

looks into mirror
unable debate on fact
call them ignorant

[punikahakaiferret]

Not to feed dragons
But love new haiku format
Shows creative thought

:-D

[MyManao]

What did happen to the Puna Geothermal Committee / how'd that affect things today?

Interestingly I don’t think PGC (Puna Geothermal Committee) had as much of an effect on things as we’d like to think we did. When we won our lawsuit against State and Campbell Estates in response to the initial exploration permit which was issued for a track of land in which the Puu Oo eruption started within a week of the permit being granted, we thought we were the victors, but in fact, in hindsight, it’s apparent to me Pele was the real force at play.

PGC was a small group but we were able to get the Volcano Community Association, the NPS, and the Sierra Club to join in our suit, and with witnesses from both Fish and Wildlife and the USGS we were successful in keeping the planned development that was intended to be built within a thousand feet of Thurston Lava Tube, and would have turned the Volcano community into a heavy industrial center, from happening. The proposed main road into the geothermal complex was through Mauna Loa subdivision. But besides our success in the courts the initial permit was placed on hold as long as the eruption in the permitted area was ongoing, and we all know now that eruption continued on and off for more than 30 years. Btw, geochem, a long time poster here who hasn't been by in a few years, was the star witness for the developers in that case.

When we filed our suit we were represented by two lawyers. One of our own founding members, Wendell Ing, and a mucky muck lawyer from Honolulu, Kenneth Kupchak*, who joined us offing his services pro bono. I never trusted Ken, although he brought a sense of having the big guns from Honolulu we didn’t feel we had in Volcano. And, of all the twists and turns back in those days I believe it was Ken's proposal of the initial land swap between the upper Kahauale’a track and the middle rift track that eventually became Wao Kele o Puna, that had the most consequence.

Ken, as I said, brought a level of credibility we needed, but when he proposed the land swap it was obvious he wasn't working for us. Campbell was already making plans along that line, and with their lease to clearcut the forest on the southern flank of the volcano in that area (at the end of the Upper Puna rd - that runs southwest from the upper part of Black Sands), it was clear they were developing the infrastructure they intended to use to further their plans in the Middle Rift. So when the swap was proposed, and it sounded right.. hey don't do it in Volcano's biologically richer forest but ok move down rift to the already more invaded by alien species Middle Rift.. everyone rallied behind it..

So, yeah, the biggest consequence, the most impact we ended up having, was to push the problem down hill. Although, had we done nothing, and as long as Pele kept erupting, folks were likely going to follow that course no matter.

The other outcome of PGC was Russell Kokubun’s political ascension, which in hindsight probably doesn’t add up to much either. Although Russell, who at the time was a cucumber farmer and another founder of PGC, did make a political career out of his initial involvement with our group. After we won our case in the courts Russell came to us and suggested we apply what funds we still had towards getting him elected to the County Council, promising to, once elected, work for our cause. So, in essence, PGC became Russell’s campaign committee. Although when he was elected he turned to us and asked for time to adjust, saying he was a junior councilman and didn’t want to rock the boat and all that. And when he went on to become a state senator he became more a middle of the road kind of guy, and seemed to forget the folks that put him in office in the first place.

And, oh btw, in the long winding road of all that one other event stands out as being of consequence in nudging things to the eventual development by Ormat (keeping in mind this all happened long before all the humbug in he Middle East Rift and True Geothermal’s failures there), when the land swap was finally consummated and Kahauale’a was officially set aside as a preserve, the eruptions at Puu Oo stopped and migrated, following the developers, down to Kupaianaha..

* Kenneth Kupchak went on to become the attorney for the investors, who eventually lost in their proposal to commercially develop Sandy Beach on Oahu.

[Sam Son]

A meandering
Decarbonizational
Dimwit diatribe.

[kalianna]

Thanks for that background, MyMona'o. I didnʻt know much of that. But with the many words that have been written both here and in previous threads, Iʻm a bit confused. Can you give this little inquiring mind a brief synopsis of where you stand on the current PGV situation and the future of geothermal. I try to keep an open mind on everything. In an uncertain world, certainty will be the death of us all.

[Punatang]

Words overflow, but
Eyes glaze, attention wanders
"tl;dr" saves

[HiloJulie]

Goose lays golden eggs 
Most say you lucky to have
But few want goose lunch