The Bicker Board

[Wao nahele wahine]

Formerly owned by Jim Nabors and now owned by Barack Obama. Must be nice to have a private beach access.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Must be nice to have a private beach access.

Plenty of beaches on Oahu.
Might be different if it was the only decent beach in a district the size of Oahu (Puna) and while one family drives to their home, and walks to that beach, everyone else needs to hike 2.2 miles through mosquito infested jungle on a slippery muddy path, only to return to their car afterwards and find the gas siphoned if they’re lucky, and not the gas tank punctured, and/or windows smashed out at the parking lot.

[HiloJulie]

A quick clarification:

The property is NOT owned by the Obama's. It is owned by Martin Nesbitt's Venture Capital firm. Nesbitt, a close friend of the Obama family serves as the Chairman of The Obama Foundation and has worked with the Obama's for decades.

Further, with respect to the private beach access issue, it is for security reasons. If ANY other former or current POTUS ever stayed at that residence would the beach still be open to the public?

At any event, please excuse my interruption of the "but, but, but OBAMA!" conversation. 

Carry on!

[Obie]

Got an easement that should have never been allowed just to destroy a large chunk of Hawaii.

Pictures don't lie. Could build an awful lot of low income homes. Look how big it is.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/08/1...loopholes/

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Could build an awful lot of low income homes.

Yes! There would certainly be no objection to building a high density low income housing project in that neighborhood!

[Wao nahele wahine]

Plenty of beaches on Oahu.

From the Star Advertiser article:

Researchers estimate that roughly a quarter of the beaches on Oahu, Maui and Kauai have already been lost or substantially narrowed because of seawalls over the past century. That has left less coastal habitat for endangered monk seals to haul up and rest and sea turtles to lay eggs. By midcentury, experts predict, the state will be down to just a handful of healthy beaches as climate change causes sea levels to rise at unprecedented rates.

and this:

Still, the Department of Land and Natural Resources has begun making some changes due to concerns about climate change. Last year, for the first time, the agency reduced the term of a new easement, from 55 years to 25 years. Officials say they now “typically” abide by the lower limit for new easements, though property owners can extend them. “In 25 years time, they can apply for another one,” said Chris Yuen, a longtime member of the state land board, which oversees the department. “It gives a chance to look at it before the 55 years is up.”

Critics say the change is not enough.

Chip Fletcher, a coastal geologist at the University of Hawaii at Manoa and the leading expert on beach loss in Hawaii, said easements and other exemptions were perpetuating irresponsible development. More than 6,500 shoreline structures, including hotels, businesses and homes, are projected to be lost or damaged with 3.2 feet of sea level rise, which could occur by 2060, according to state Opens in a new tabprojections Opens in a new tab. The Waimanalo property, Fletcher said, was a good example of a residential lot that is no longer fit for habitation.

“Why are we, on the one hand, warning the public about climate change and professing to value beaches,” he said, “and on the other hand allowing major renovations of a shoreline that was on its way out?”

[MyManao]

a large chunk of Hawaii..

Ya know, I still don't see it. Obie if you want to talk large.. ok, it's big but brah 'large chunk of Hawaii?' That's a stretch, a really 'large' stretch. And, destroy? What's being destroyed? I don't get it. It's called renewal. Folks do it all the time. Take something old and replaced it with something new. No native land taken, no undisturbed land disturbed, just three already existing lots in a subdivision combined into one. Renewal, not destroyed, and certainly not a 'large chunk' of anything. And besides, I imagine the city loves it.. more for them in taxes.

But hey, it's a successful and highly compassionate black man who you've been taught, trained, to disrespect. So yeah, it's really big and it's destroying, and OMG run for your lives!

Seriously Obie, I think this thread is way more about your politics and over indulging in all that fair and balanced stuff than it is about anything real. But hey, I am sure if it was Hillary it'd be twice as large and twice as destroying. And conversely, if it was that orange orangutan you all are so enamored with it'd be just a little cottage, and, essential for national security or some such. But, no large chunks.. and certainly not destroying.

And besides all that.. low income housing? Sheesh we got all kinds brah. P'tang (I sure do miss good ol' P'tang.. and hope he's all to the good wherever he is) is always reminding us how much.. and that's just the spec houses in HPP. Think of how much there must be in the entirety of Puna. We got plenty brah. No need rain on Barack and Michelle's parade..

[HiloJulie]

Also from the Star Advertiser link provided:

"Over the past two decades, officials have awarded seawall easements to more than 120 property owners, who have sometimes paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to bypass rules designed to protect the public shoreline, according to an investigation by the Honolulu Star-Advertiser and ProPublica. Among those owners are business and real estate executives from Hawaii, the mainland U.S. and Japan; a former Honolulu City Council chair; and a former managing director of a large hedge fund."

(bolding by me)

Are the more than 120 OTHER property owners entitled to the same scrutiny? Or just the democrat ones? But especially the black ones for sure?

Also from the link:

"In 2014, Grossman’s granddaughter, Eve Anderson, who served a short stint as a Republican state legislator, put her estate up for sale for $15.7 million."

"The property wouldn’t be worth much, though, if she couldn’t assure prospective buyers that the seawall could continue to protect the estate. She applied for an easement. “If the wall goes out,” Anderson told the Star-Advertiser and ProPublica, “then half of the house is going to be left hanging without much underneath it.”"

So, should this issue be more about the permit being issued to increase and protect the property value of the former (republican) owner putting it up for sale, or a about a permit being issued to benefit the Obama's?

And then:

"Why are we, on the one hand, warning the public about climate change..."

So, climate change DOES exist when Obama does something that might appear to be against the realisms of climate change?

Maybe to get some real bona fide traction, acceptance and action on climate change, Obama might consider doing a massive blitz on all social media platforms announcing that climate change is indeed a hoax and Chinese conspiracy?"

I'm sure he would be game to do that! And maybe even with that cute "wink" and toothy cheesy smile of his too! And definitely wearing a tan suit! OMG!!!!

That just might make the non-believers believers!? 

Halleluiah and Amen!!

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

the seawalls protecting these properties have diminished the shorelines.
…
By midcentury, experts predict, the state will be down to just a handful of healthy beaches as climate change causes sea levels to rise at unprecedented rates.
…
6,500 shoreline structures, including hotels, businesses and homes, are projected to be lost or damaged with 3.2 feet of sea level rise, which could occur by 2060,
…
It’s also plausible, they say, that the sea could rise 6.5 feet by 2100.

So what is the answer? Are seawalls destroying our beaches? Sea level rise covering our beaches?  Do we focus on the short term rights of kids to have access to beaches, property owners to have short term protection of their property?  Will Hawaii look any different in 2050 or 2100 if one property owner has a sea wall? 

How do the generally low carbon lifestyle choices necessitated by living in Puna affect our future?  More or less than one seawall?

[Wao nahele wahine]

Are the more than 120 OTHER property owners entitled to the same scrutiny? Or just the democrat ones? But especially the black ones for sure?

Feel free to ask Sophie Cocke:

The Honolulu Star-Advertiser and ProPublica are spending the year investigating the state’s disappearing beaches. Please get in touch with reporter Sophie Cocke at scocke@staradvertiser.com or 808-295-1851 if you have information you want to share about seawalls or other shoreline hardening structures.