What is up with the cops out here???

[YurtGirl]

My friends are helping to manage a vacation rental/hostel near their home and they got a terrified call from the owner (a single, middle aged woman) that one of her new guests was getting violent and threatening her because the signal for internet was out.

They went over to give some support and ask the man to leave. Upon arriving, they could tell he was a few eggs short of a dozen, seemed amped up on something and was VERY aggro with them. They told him who they were, that they worked there, and informed him that he had to leave because he was causing a disturbance.

The man started raving about his phone, that it was in the other house and he was going to 'Get that B****', whereupon my friends calmly stated that no, he was not going to do that, one of them would get the phone and return with it while the other helped him pack. Well (This was a stupid move on my friend's part), the husband went to get the phone and she stayed to help him pack. He ended up getting aggro again, this time grabbing her arm, hard (major bruising and fingernail cuts in her upper arm) and threw her halfway down a flight of stairs.

Of course this goes on, the husband comes racing back, somehow kept his cool, they called the police and the police came out. In the end, they said that it wasn't important that the man assaulted her, because it wasn't her property. (????!!!!!!! What??) They told her that unless she wanted to file a whole other case and be there for several more hours, they recommended she stay out of it. Then they told them that if they wanted the man gone, they (my friends) would have to bring him (the psycho) down to Keaau in their (my friend's) vehicle. Seriously.

The man had priors with them. Violence was a factor. He just assaulted a woman, totally terroristically threatened another, and THIS is how the cops dealt with the situation?? What the hell??? It's surprising there aren't more cases of vigilante justice out here, and one can hardly blame a person when it comes down to situations like this. Seriously.

[Carey]

One of the things I have noticed, The police that are paid very nicely (over $500/month extra) by the county taxpayers for the unmarked "privately owned" cars, are not willing to use them for anything but transporting themselves.... some of those cars are even 2 door models.... how in the world COULD/WOULD they want a suspect in that type of car??? I have seen 3 unmarked with a suspect waiting for a marked car to take away the suspect... and anything ucky.. no way do they want that in their car!

[opihikao]

This case should be documented, sent to the rank in Puna, with a copy to the Police Chief, and the Police Commission. A response and explanation should be demanded, with a deadline to respond (5 days, 7 days, etc.).

Make sure the request includes the officer's name(s), badge # (if you have it). Documentation is crucial immediately after the incident. In case the victim(s) chooses to file a formal complaint. Also ask for a copy of the police report, and 911 tape of the incident from beginning to end.

The only way to effect change is to get the facts out to proper channels, and a lawyer friend or legal aide (free) can assist in the process.

This is very difficult to understand, as there are liability issues with what the police allegedly stated ("not important because it's not her property", take the perp in the victim's car, etc.). Makes no sense. At all.

Was the perp/nut even arrested???

[oink]

Sounds like it was a total cluster f*ck. Was this a legal rental arrangement? How does Hawaii landlord tenant law apply here? Was there a legal arrangement that makes these friends managers? Did the "suspect" have a right to be where he was? Did your friend have the legal right to be where she was? While not in the presence of the owner? Was it a situation where the suspect had a legal right to be where he was and your friend did not, if told to leave by the "suspect" and while not in the presence of the owner. Was the "suspect" able to claim the he had the right to be there while the friend did not and the friend put her hands on him in an effort to force him from the residence in which he had a legal right to be? Did the police have a legal right to physically remove the "suspect" from the property if he didn't want to leave? In strictly legal terms could your friend(s) have been construed as the aggressors?

There may have been an improper failure to act on the cops part but can't tell from that scenario. There are many instances where the cops can empathize with one side of an incident but are legally constrained from taking any action, especially in incidents that turn out to be non-criminal civil matters.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[jackson]

Welcome to TBI. "Proper channels." Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. You're not in Kansas anymore. Love it or leave it, but you'll make yourself nuts trying to change it.

[YurtGirl]

That's exactly what I said, Opihikao. I told them to document the facts in a write up and I'd put it out there to get it published as a public document and that they should also take that down to the station in Keaau and to the chief of police. It was completely out of bounds. The husband said he had seen them on a call in the subdivision earlier and he got the impression it was just before shift change and they didn't want the extra paperwork. I know that they often don't want to get involved either when a person has known psychological issues. Take the girl that was walking down the middle of the highway for instance... They put her on a bus to Kona. That was their solution. ?!

NO WAY is that a legal liability issue, if a woman or man or child is assaulted, it doesn't matter where it is. If the cops come, they have a legal obligation to document the facts and press charges, arresting a person if they were breaking the law. THEY DIDN'T EVEN ARREST THIS GUY. He was threatening to kill the owner, in front of her and my two friends. That's illegal. Then he grabbed a woman and threw her down some stairs. Again, illegal.

Everything was legal on their part. Not that the police checked for that before discounting every thing they said. They had a legal right to be there, acting on behalf of the business, requested by the owner to assist her in getting him to leave peacefully.

You tell me, Oink. I'm pretty sure that, even in a standard hotel, if you threaten to kill the owner, staff comes to ask you to leave, you refuse, say you are going to find the owner to harm them, someone steps in front of you to say "No, I can't allow you to do that", you assault that person... I'm pretty sure the cops have every duty to arrest you and the owner has every right to boot you to the curb.

No way were my friends the aggressors. Maybe in this guys warped mind, but they never touched him and kept calm, asking him to leave. They handled things very professionally from the sounds of it. Even after the guy assaulted the woman, the husband (BIG local guy)kept his hands in his pockets and just acted as a barrier until the police got there.

I was assaulted down on a remote part of 4 mile several years ago. A micronesian man in a white pickup tried to grab me and force me into his vehicle. I fought him off, called the police, got his license plate number, he had gone further into 4 mile instead of going back toward the highway, so there was only ONE WAY OUT. The police said they'd try to get there but it would be a few hours, what did I want them to do? I said, "What would you do if that was your daughter? Or your wife? Or your mother? That's what I want you to do, because that's who it will be next time!!!" They apologized, but said I'd have to come down to the station if I wanted to make a report. This is an ongoing bs issue with the police here. Some are good, some are great. Many are just in it for a paycheck and are not trained enough to be doing what they do. Protocol is lacking. A year later I went down to the same place with my big dog and my mother. The guy was there again, scoping out for victims. He'd been allowed to continue this, in his same truck, who knows how many girls he attacked, and how many times he got away with more. I called the police again. Same response. And then there's the issue of, if they arrest people, where are they going to go? Our facilities just got cut by 3/4. The old jail is an airforce training base or something like that now. We only have a few cells in Hilo and a small compound near Shipman. I suspect that half the time reports on even made on incidents, even if you request it. I went down and made a report when that man attacked me, even though I was fuming at the lack of police concern. When I called later, they had no record of that report.

[jackson]

Yurt Girl, to clarify, I agree with you. This sucks big time. But are you going to change it? My experince says no. This is a large island with a small population. No six degrees of separation here, more like one degree. The police here are mostly local and sometimes you are asking them to arrest their cousin or uncle and they are not going to risk being a family outcast or worse. Yes, this is the US, but I've found it's easier to get along here if you consider it differently.

[opihikao]

Yurtgirl, I meant liability to the County, due to police inaction. This is perfect territory for a lawsuit if the accusations are accurate. So sorry for your experience, how horrible.

jackson, I hear you, however, being here all my life, there is "more than one way to skin a cat". Just saying.

If there is no report on record, type one up and ask for it to be recorded (I've done it), with a copy to the AG's office, Chief/Police, Police Comm., etc.

A little off topic, but...does anyone wonder why the FBI is "in house"? Rumor mill is churning, our department has some HUGE problems. Obviously.

[oink]

I wasn't claiming the cops did right. As far as that goes, for the most part, I've not been very impressed with what I've heard about the local police. Based on the little information given in the original post it sounded like one of those confusing clusters I've been on where you can't determine what really happened or who is legally at fault. I obviously wasn't there so I can only base an opinion on your post. I don't know Hawaii landlord tenant law or how it would apply in that case. Was it a legal arrangement that would fall under laws governing hotels or transient accommodations? A long term residential rental arrangement? Or was it some quasi-legal or off books arrangement? It could make a difference. I don't claim to know Hawaii law. In many cases for a threat to be illegal it must be believable, the victim must actually feel fear and the suspect must be immediately capable of carrying out the threat. Drunken azz holes aren't necessarily breaking the law by just being drunken azz holes (damn it!). All those variables could influence the cops ability to act, especially if the landlord tenant situation is murky.

I can too easily envision a scenario where you have an off book rental arrangement where you have one ne'er-do-well renting from other ne'er-do-wells and they have an argument and the landlord side calls their friend/goons over to illegally evict the other, where a legal court eviction would be called for. During this, one person is injured but this occurs when he/she is in the suspect n'er-do-well's "legal" residence, where the "victim" entered or remained "unlawfully". When it doesn't go as planned they then call the cops. The cops show up and find a cluster with no right or wrong sides, just squabbling me'er-do-wells. That could be what they saw, right or wrong.

Don't take that paragraph as an indictment of your friends. It was a scenario I dreamt up based on past experiences and likely bears no semblance to this incident.

It does sound like some sort of report on the incident would be appropriate, but then I come from a background where reports are generated for most everything. It could also be that the cops screwed up. I don't know, but it does sound like a cluster.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[kani-lehua]

Your friends should file a complaint with the Police Commission. We did this on O'ahu. At first we went to our area station and filed a complaint with the officer's Sergeant. From there, we were called to the PC and interviewed. I believe the complaint stays in the officer's file.



"a great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

w. james