Hawaiian’s First 787!

[HiloJulie]

I know it’s been here since Valentine’s Day, but this was the first official news report I’ve seen!

Nice looking “rig!” Business Class looks cool!

I am a bit surprised that they went with the 3-3-3 seating layout in coach versus a 2-5-2 layout when you consider most passengers on this new plane are tourists who generally are couples and/or families. 

At any event - congratulations to Hawaiian Airlines! I hope to fly her someday!

https://www.khon2.com/hawaii-travel/hawa...liner/amp/

Video of the plane arriving on 2/14:

https://youtu.be/FiDvb1vs48Q?si=1zweYulyPAAs2irj

[TomK]

I'm glad they're updating their fleet. Ironically, I'm soon taking my first trip on Hawaiian to the mainland but in their old A330. I've always flown AA but this was so much cheaper and I got a 1st class seat. I can now try their whacky layout for that seating. The 787's seating plan looks much better to me. I wonder how long it will be before the B717s are replaced, as they are getting old - even the A330s are pretty old now.

[HiloJulie]

I remember being in Long Beach in late 2003 and driving past the old McDonnell Douglas then Boeing assembly plant and seeing 3 then brand new Hawaiian 717’s. 

Seems like a lifetime ago!

[AaronS]

Alaska initially announced the 737 MAX would replace the 717 if their purchase of Hawaiian Airlines went through. They backtracked on that statement a few months later when they stated they'll keep the 717s in service another five years. This decision is apparently based upon the 737 MAX's engines. They're incapable of a hot restart and quick turnaround that is required for inter island service. This may change in the next 2-3 years when this capability may be included with the 737MAX's engines.

[Obie]

I don't think it will change. It's called "bowed rotor motoring".

It's done automatically by the engine computers and adds about 90 seconds per engine.

[terracore]

Obie, what's it called when a 737 jump starts an engine on another 737 with a big tube? I saw that once in Alaska and the engine that needed the assist shat out a bunch of black smoke when it fired up. I wonder what the people on the plane thought about their flight when they saw that?

Also, is there a reason why they needed a second aircraft (why couldn't they start the engine using a tube from the other engine on the same aircraft? Maybe to avoid a bend in the tube?)

I also saw them replacing an engine out on the tarmac in Sitka after the engine "ingested" a bald eagle. They didn't have any hangars so were out in the elements and in the cold and weather a long ways from a real repair facility.

[TomK]

It'll be interesting to see Obie's response. I've never seen a jet "jump-started" by another plane although have seen and experienced the odd flight when the first engine was started by an external power source - I think that can happen when the APU may not be working. As for the smoke, maybe it was a new engine? They come with extra lubricants that need to be burned off and make an awful lot of smoke, e.g.,

https://youtu.be/ZEPhgZeZARI?si=wR2OJanh-l7x0eo6
https://youtu.be/faTt0hIjjg8?si=PqoA1Y0RmVdcmqmM

[HiloJulie]

Alaska initially announced the 737 MAX would replace the 717 if their purchase of Hawaiian Airlines went through. They backtracked on that statement a few months later when they stated they'll keep the 717s in service another five years. This decision is apparently  based upon the 737 MAX's engines. They're incapable of a hot restart and quick turnaround that is required for inter island service.  This may change in the next 2-3 years when this capability may be included with the 737MAX's engines.

I am wondering however, that if the Alaska acquisition truly happens and considering all the “garbage” with Boeing, as well as Alaska’s current fleet of 87 Embraer 175’s we could see them make a push towards the newest Embraer E195-E2. 

Still works for fleet consolidation which is their aim, but damn sure wish Boeing would get its poop together. I think once as perfected as it’s original predecessor, the 737 MAX family are the best jets around for their designed purpose.

[Obie]

I've never seen or heard of using bleed air from one aircraft to start another. There is an automatic one way check valve in the connector for external air that prevents air from escaping, it only allows air to enter. Normally an external air supply comes from a small jet engine on a wheeled cart that can be towed around.
What happens in Alaska is whole different deal though. I suppose a connector could be built that could hold the check valve open on a plane so it could supply air but it would be extremely dangerous.

Starting an engine after one is running can be done by cross bleeding using an isolation valve that's used for that purpose. No hose required.

---

The 737 max 8's that Southwest flies to Hawaii have to go through engine cooling procedure that AaronS talked about and it doesn't stop them from operating here.
Hawaiian has a lot more flights but they could adapt.

The Hawaiian 717's are really economical to operate and are perfect for the market.

Delta got a whole fleet of 717's from Southwest that they wanted to dispose of after they bought Air Tran. Delta likes them so well that they bought up almost every 717 in the world. They now operate 88 of them.

[terracore]

Thanks for the reply. When we watched this thing play out on the tarmac I had no idea what we were seeing might have rarely been done before. The aircraft that got jump-started had been there for several days which leads me to believe everything else they tried hadn't worked, or at least it took that long to get enough parts (and the tube?) delivered.

One of my favorite/least favorite Alaska Airlines memories was coming in for a landing in Juneau, nothing unusual there, but something about the weather caused the flight to take an unusual approach. I was seated in an aisle seat and had just dozed off to sleep and then an older woman on the other side of the aisle grabbed my arm and shoulder and started shaking me and screamed, "WE'RE GOING TO HIT THE MOUNTAIN!" Holy shit... I looked out the window and for a full second of being half-awake it DID seem like we were really close to the mountain. But by then I could tell we were turning away from it, not towards it.

I will never know if she was punking me or not, but the worst Alaska Airlines crash, in terms of fatalities, was Alaska Airlines Flight 1866. It occurred on September 4, 1971, when a Boeing 727-100 flying from Anchorage to Seattle crashed into a mountain near Juneau, Alaska, killing all 111 people on board.