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+--- Thread: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. (/showthread.php?tid=10211)
RE: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. - rbrgs - 05-10-2012
Actually, recently designed military guns (like the M16 and the AK-47) are designed to not kill people, just wound them, 'cause treating the wounded eats up more resources than just leaving them for dead. But lets not let facts stand in the way of feel good propaganda.....
The left wing radicals who wrote Hawaii's state constitution copied the second amendment word for word because, during the plantation era, only rich, politically connected people were allowed to have guns, and they thought that this was a really bad idea. Remember, if you're between 16 and 45 (both genders are included), and don't work for the government, you're legally part of the unorganized militia.
RE: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. - Greg - 05-10-2012
Well it's pretty obvious that rbrgs wasn't ever in the military.
RE: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. - missydog1 - 05-10-2012
Do we really think we would all work together in a nice functional militia these days?
The Revolutionary War period was a much simpler social structure. I have read some history of the ordinary people who served in the militia then, doing my family history. I have about a dozen ancestors who served, mostly in and around Valley Forge. At that time, having a proper gun would help them to man a defense (most of them who were in local militia and not in the Continental Line were fighting on the defense against incursions and raids).
In Ireland, in the Fenian Rising of 1867 for example, possessing even a modicum of firearms was of immense importance as the peasant tenants literally had farm implements going against the trained British troops. (For a good read on the fight that spawned the IRB/IRA, "Tenants of Time" by Thomas Flannagan.")
Today, yes, the people can have guns, but does that really put us in a position to resist governmental tyranny? IMHO, we are more unequal to resisting the government by force than the Irish peasants (the IRA figured out a long time ago that guns weren't enough even in the 20th century).
The second Amendment had a clear intent of giving the people (the landowners) the ability to resist unjust actions by the government. It was never about GUNS per se, but rather what it meant at that time to have guns -- to have something remotely similar to what the government had ... now some 230 years later, guns in the hands of the people don't mean squat in terms of resisting oppression.
To my mind, the Second Amendment almost creates a false complacency in people. You get all riled up at the idea your right to bear arms might be restricted. Meanwhile, so much is being taken from you in so many ways that having firearms cannot effectively resist.
RE: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. - oink - 05-10-2012
OMG, I thought this was fading away.
quote:OK, yes, in a crisis I do think many citizens would work cooperatively in a nice functional militia.
Do we really think we would all work together in a nice functional militia these days?
quote:Still would and why military type firearms should be permitted.
At that time, having a proper gun would help them to man a defense
quote:Ok, I agree. Having an armed populace is security against tyranny.
In Ireland, in the Fenian Rising of 1867 for example, possessing even a modicum of firearms was of immense importance as the peasant tenants literally had farm implements going against the trained British troops.
quote:Yes it does put us in a position to resist. No it would not put the populace on an equal footing. What makes you think that in an instance of tyranny all of the U.S. military, State Guards and civilian Law Enforcement would follow a tyrant?
Today, yes, the people can have guns, but does that really put us in a position to resist governmental tyranny? IMHO, we are more unequal to resisting the government by force than the Irish peasants
quote:I largely agree and it still holds true.
The second Amendment had a clear intent of giving the people (the landowners) the ability to resist unjust actions by the government. It was never about GUNS per se, but rather what it meant at that time to have guns -- to have something remotely similar to what the government had
quote:Wrong, it means a lot.
... now some 230 years later, guns in the hands of the people don't mean squat in terms of resisting oppression.
quote:No, very wrong. The health of the Second Amendment is the canary in the mine
To my mind, the Second Amendment almost creates a false complacency in people. You get all riled up at the idea your right to bear arms might be restricted.
quote:Yes, and scary isn't it, although I'm sure we would disagree, to a large extent, on what that means.
Meanwhile, so much is being taken from you in so many ways that having firearms cannot effectively resist.
I do not believe this country is on the edge of tyranny. However, I think the threat always has and always will exist. Our Founding Fathers were wise to consider that possibility.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. - dmbwest - 05-10-2012
gettin' out there but fun to read ...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090423165406AAX2CrZ
aloha,
pog
edited upon research of Yamamoto quote
RE: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. - coppercoin40 - 05-10-2012
About 10 years ago I had a dream that people cloaked in black ninja sneaker style clothing were moving in large forces through the dark of night carrying assault rifles and splitting off at each road and drive that led to homes.. I heard shots and screams simultaneously throughout the neighborhood, people, neighbors, friends last sounds before certain death, as I and my husband snuck quietly out the back door into the dark of woods with nothing but quickly donned clothing and the guns and ammo that were close at hand. I woke up... It was a strange dream that has stumped me and I will not forget the feeling as long as I breathe. We keep a handgun at our bedside, it doesn't matter where you live danger may be lurking, it never hurts to be prepared. If you think that by people not bringing guns to Hawaii will create a better society, you are living in a false utopia. These days evil lurks everywhere better to be prepared to take care of yourself against evil intent.
RE: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. - PaulW - 05-10-2012
Wow, that's a really great reason to increase everyone's risk of being shot - yours most of all.
RE: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. - dmbwest - 05-10-2012
LOL .. As soon as I read words like "evil" the flags go up ..
"If you think that by people not bringing guns to Hawaii will create a better society, you are living in a false utopia. These days evil lurks everywhere better to be prepared to take care of yourself against evil intent."
Going by Robs "question" sign off ... Coppercoin40, ,,,,,please tell this was part of your dream ...
RE: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. - oink - 05-10-2012
If the definition of evil would be people who are lacking a detectable conscience or moral compass, then I would agree that there is far more evil in our society that what the average citizen can conceive of actually existing. I've seen it first hand too many times. I guess you can assign medical or psychological terms to what controls the minds of such people but the effect is the same. It is fortunate that most people can live their lives and not have first hand experience with such "evil".
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Bringing Firearms When Moving to B.I. - coppercoin40 - 05-11-2012
lol, I figured my post would have at least a few anti gun peeps squawking! Sorry folks to raise your ire
the darn dream is not fabricated fantasy, its an uncomfortable nightmare! One that I pay attention to because I have had several "nightmares" or strong intuitions that I paid attention to and found there was a very real purpose to my subconsciousness. You might say prophetic of things that came to pass. By recognizing ones that I cannot shake I feel something is preparing me to act or react in certain ways to protect myself or others. Go ahead and prejudge me as a kook if you want 
that won't change me and guess maybe I will fit right in with so many others that are prejudged by looks, actions, or other! I was raised with guns, guns are a large part of life in remoteness, on farms, even in the stark loneliness of a city of remorseless idiots! Fortunately I have never had to use or point a gun at anyone for protection, I have had a gun pointed at me by an ex trying to keep me from leaving! Yes I have lived with and around evil, it makes me feel more secure that I have my wonderful husband from a second marriage at my side and well prepared to keep an evil doer at more than arms length! It is an american right to have and bear arms, America would not be the country it is without arms that have done battle for good over evil that have shaped our country. From what I have seen of Hawaii even through posts of warning on Punaweb regarding questionable neighborhoods, I do not think Hawaii has yet become an elite enough state of a crimeless place to live to warrant warnings of "we don't want gun toting people to move here!" Just because people own guns does not make them bad people! We hunt various wildlife which requires different weapons for different species, we carry small handguns when fishing to shoot that 300# Halibut before it's tail lashes the boat and flips it! We carry bear spray and a weapon when hiking in the woods for protection against bears. Let me tell you if you have ever had a bear barreling down on you, you would be surely thankful for the weapon you carry to put it on its face! If you can face a situation like that and kill prior to an attack you surely will be able to secure your home from dangerous intruders before they have the chance to take your gun away from you - lol that just makes me laugh! I have played that scenario in my mind many times and know without a doubt they do not stand a chance, I will not be afraid or freeze and allow myself to be overcome and my family tortured and killed - I will act without blinking an eye! If that makes me a "bad" person in your eyes well I will be keeping to myself anyways so likely you will never meet me or know I even exist in pleasurable silent bliss on my own private piece of paradise that will be gated, locked and posted warnings to call before entry! Beware if you plan to pass through the warnings without prior contact, you will not be welcome and yes I will be wary of you and your intent! Yes I am against those who protest guns and believe we should not own them. For some that have posted here I can see owning guns is a hobby and they like to own many types - guns are a beautiful amazing weapons that for some are just fun to look at, polish and shine, show off, competition shoot, and for some the security of self defense. For those who believe guns should be left out of Hawaii, what will you do to protect yourself if and when the time comes to do so? Lay yourself and your daughter down to be raped, abused and then killed?POG - "Going by Robs "question" sign off ... Coppercoin40" Pog, I do not get what you are trying to tell me here... sign off of forum because I am not agreed with?
I have guns, I will be bringing guns, I will be using guns to hunt, to shoot trap and targets, and to provide a sense of security. I hope they do not have to be used against the idiot "home boys" who think they can rob newbies homes and leave them feeling vulnerable and broken. If we moved there without guns and we were robbed the first thing we would do is go buy a gun!!! lol yep folks just a good old gun believing redneck that was taught to use guns to provide food for the table and family protection. I wish there was a "true" Utopian society where everyone was on the same page, maybe when a new earth like planet is discovered that kind of society will exist. I sure don't see it happening in this world. I have personally dealt with too many crazy people, too many people with evil intent to feel at ease with no means of self protection! Lets see examples: peeping tom, at the age of 9 - 10 2 separate instances of dirty old men trying to lure me to harm, my phone lines cleanly cut - NOT chewed by an animal, my car parked on my homes steep driveway with the tires turned sideways to prevent roll and the emergency brake checked and double checked yet only to find it in the morning with the emergency brake released and car in the gully, left home as the last song on my record was finishing up and I switched to auto off when it finished playing, I listened as the last notes of music played the arm lifted and the record shut off, only to come home to my front door cracked open and the same song playing the same notes as I left and then the arm lifted and the player shut off! Wierd, weird weird - and I had been reading Helter Skelter, ha that really helped!!!