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+--- Thread: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=17312)
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RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - TomK - 03-04-2017
"Wellllll....last time I spoke to anyone was in November with Generra of the Honoka'a halau and after having a super fun impromptu dance jam in her store she told me she was going to the Volcano to do a hula ritual with her halau. I'm not sure it was advertised except by word of mouth and that is the magic of face to face interaction."
I've seen plenty of Hula performed on Kilauea (i.e., "the volcano"). In all my years of working on Mauna Kea, I have yet to see a Hula ritual anywhere near the MK summit.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - ohiagrrl - 03-05-2017
OK...This stuff is taught in early grade school here and luckily someone close to me attended class that day.
Each Island is split up into pie shaped wedges that run mauka to makai and then subdivided again into smaller wedges lower down the mountains. The people stewarding the land management/law(kapu) and higher ground were Ali'i and high ground is known to be burial grounds as well as for performing different sacred rituals...asking a living Kumu for details would be my preferred method because it's a source of connection. Different ohana (family) and halau (hula group) would be associated with the different moku or land divisions, naturally.
http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&CategoryID=299
http://www.ahamoku.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/BigIsland_Moku_compressed.png
http://www.mauna-a-wakea.info/maunakea/F4_burials.html
The Piscotta Pohaku (sacred stone) could have started off as a family land marker or gravestone and lost the details of it's meaning during decline periods. It could have been part of law to place those markers. In any event it clearly has meaning to Mrs Piscotta. Pohakuloa means 'long sacred stone' implying that that was where you put your sacred stones. TMT propo's better hope they don't find bones over there above Waimea.
TK, Back on Island?
I was saying a Kumu might have more info on what rituals would be performed (and where) because different moku or areas of the mokupuni were designated for different uses and stewarded by different families under an Ali'i. The articles and map above seems to support that. That new section of Hwy 200 is structurally designed for moving big things up and down that big mountain; a visual clue. (Even if TMT isn't being built up there a bargaining chip for building new was taking down at least one old telescope.) The state and military support TMT, the economy needs anything, Standing Rock; political/legal trend clues. Prove me wrong, please. You may have a dog in this fight but it's just a debate for me.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 03-05-2017
This stuff is taught in early grade school
ohiagrrl,
Almost everything you posted concerns the entirety of Mauna Kea, which if measured from the floor of the sea, is the largest mountain on earth. If someone says a family member was buried on Mauna Kea, I don't doubt that's true, it's nearly one third of the Big Island.
Now, the discussion on this thread is the 5 acre parcel on which the TMT will be built. An Environmental Impact Study was conducted, as were extensive cultural, archaeological, and historical studies. Nothing you wrote or linked is applicable to the 5 acre TMT site.
The Piscotta Pohaku (sacred stone) could have started off as a family land marker or gravestone and lost the details
It could have, but based on the wealth of mis-information she's willing to put forward, it's just as likely it may not have started out that way. Perhaps her family, like many other families had a marker much lower on the mountain, and having, "lost the details" she chose to move it to a place most conducive to her anti-TMT stance. What efforts do you think she made to find the exact location of the original family marker? I suggest you ask her.
You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - ohiagrrl - 03-05-2017
Sorry, HOT, just edited last post. You were looking for numbers of people who visitted the mountaintop and why. Just trying to point you in the right direction. I'm sorry if you don't see the whole picture. You are the expert on recycling rocks. LOL!!!!! Loved that. A bargaining chip for building where TMT wants it, is to take down one or more of the old telescopes, topside. Re-read last post. You will see the thread. I can see how the succession of questions to various people could be confusing.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - leilanidude - 03-05-2017
If the "protectors" insist upon using the Hawaiian Kingdom as their main point for the "sacredness" of the mountain, then they need to understand that their own kings and queens abolished the kapu system and those gods. So how can they now claim it is sacred when their own king said (apologizing here for my interpretation) No it isn't and stop the worshiping of those gods?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - ohiagrrl - 03-05-2017
Hawaiians like any other culture and religion have just as many political intrigues and influences as any other nation or religion. Not up to anyone else to decide what is valid and what isn't about Hawaiian culture.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 03-05-2017
I'm sorry if you don't see the whole picture... Re-read last post... You will see
I'll give you this much ohiagrrl. Whereas dakine/glinda chooses to make his unsubstantiated statements, then generally won't answer questions about them, or deletes them, you at least give it a go.
It's usually by deflecting, changing or rerouting the argument though. If one of your beliefs can't be confirmed, then ask the other person to prove it for you, or claim you're looking at a bigger picture which now includes... THIS new piece of information!
It's like playing Protector Wack-A-Mole.
I would definitely pay $3 to watch a 10 minute edited tape of dakine/glinda, Piscotta, and you discussing anything in a room over the course of a few days. Especially if it includes donkeys.
You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - ohiagrrl - 03-05-2017
TMI
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - ohiagrrl - 03-05-2017
HOTPE writes:
"I would definitely pay $3 to watch a 10 minute edited tape of dakine/glinda, Piscotta, and you discussing anything in a room over the course of a few days. Especially if it includes donkeys."
Maybe you've never seen the donkey's of Waipio, but if you had you would realize that this says more about you than anyone else. TMT related?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 03-05-2017
TMT related?
I'm sorry, I could have stated that better.
Especially if it includes the discussion of donkeys as they relate to the TMT.
You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.