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+--- Thread: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island (/showthread.php?tid=9304)
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - liskir - 11-01-2012
Great idea to have hunters get them to feed their families, except for open access is no longer open. Land is gradually gated and closed off to save some nonexistent endangered plant or another. Whatever happened to traditional hunting/gathering rights???
"An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped" Dr. Ron Paul 2012
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - Carey - 11-01-2012
One of the reasons to have a license... There are ways for those with hunting licenses to open many of the gates...however SOME of the gates are to deter prey that the hunters are after & are not open to hunters (the ones in the ungulate EXCLUSION areas that are not supposed to have any of these ungulates.
The hunting license here give the hunter some benefits, and hunters that do register their catch provide a very important conservation tool. When you read other threads about how to get rid of pigs in the garden, realize that this is not a big problem for most states....
Every time I see feral pigs & goats gazing along the highway RIGHT IN Hilo, I realize how lucky hunters here are... many of the areas I have lived, you would only find prey out in the open right after corn harvest....& have to trudge through hundreds to thousands of acres to get a shot at the prey... nothing like here, where they are out in the roadway & in peoples yards & such! Oh, and most public lands there were completely restricted from hunting , with very fines (like $1,000 or more)
There are a very small handful of hunters that still will cut open the ungulate exclusion fences & bash the gates, costing all of us much to try to protect remnant habitat that remains from the time when the law of the kapu controlled those that did not like the traditional hunting/gathering rights set forth by the ali`i...
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - hilodiver - 11-01-2012
I am a fisherman, but started hunting here on the Big Island a couple years ago. I even brought my wife and kids to the Hunter Education class with me. Since I started, I've learned that the majority of the hunters on the Island hunt ethically, following all rules and regulations, and are concerned about game management and our environment. There are those who will trespass and poach, but they are few.
As for Axis Deer, I'm hearing rumors of small populations on Mauna Kea, but haven't seen any yet. Now that the state made them legal to hunt, I'll be looking forward to my first encounter with one, not only to help get rid of these invasive animals, but I hear they make some good eats!
Aloha!
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - Midnight Rambler - 11-01-2012
quote:Yes, who can forget that old Hawaiian story about how Kalanikupule, the king of Maui, led a great hunting party up Haleakala and shot the biggest deer on the mountain? Sad to think that these ancient traditions might become a thing of the past.
Originally posted by liskir
Great idea to have hunters get them to feed their families, except for open access is no longer open. Land is gradually gated and closed off to save some nonexistent endangered plant or another. Whatever happened to traditional hunting/gathering rights???
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - csgray - 11-01-2012
That would be a myth, during Kalanikupule's time there were no deer in Hawaii. Until well into the reign of King Kamehameha the only mammals here other than the monk seal and Hawaiian bat were brought by the Tahitians who settled Hawaii in their voyaging canoes. They brought little pigs much like the pot bellied type, and dogs, but no deer. Cattle and Russian boars came in King Kamehameha's time, at some point after that people brought domestic pigs, mountain goats, and eventually the axis deer, but in Kalanikupule's time the Hawaiians were not hunting land mammals. They also never hunted whales or other sea mammals, even though many other similar cultures like the native Alaskans did.
Carol
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - pahoated - 11-02-2012
That is not only a myth, it is a huge whopper of a lie.
Kalanikupule lived from 1760 - 1796. He was king of Maui for one year before being killed by Kamehameha in 1796.
Axis deer were introduced to Molokai in 1867, almost 70 years after Kalanikupule had died. Axis deer were introduced to Maui in 1959, by the government, for recreational hunting. They reproduce at 20% to 30% per year on Maui with no predators, and now, even with hunting, are estimated at over 20,000.
The hunters, for all their bellowing and chest beating, are not very good hunters. Then there are those that have to prove their point of making holes in the fences the DLNR is trying to put up to restore the native ecosystem, then saying DLNR is incompetent because their fences aren't working. Sheesh!
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - punaticbychoice - 11-02-2012
pahoated:
Absolutely right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - seekir - 11-02-2012
Originally posted by oink:
quote:I suppose what I find most disappointing about this dilemma is the selfishness and arrogance of the helicopter operator and his co-conspirators who apparently took it upon themselves to transport the breeding population of axis deer here to the island. You'd think we'd have established some very effective deterrents by now to discourage the sort of tunnel-vision which must have been at the heart of the decision these people made. A decision they undertook to serve their own interests and circumvent any kind of community participation in choices they felt empowered to make for us all, choices which could have such a monumental effect on the future of the island's ecology, farms, gardens, and general well-being. The rather random introduction of various species to the islands that has occurred since the polynesians and the rest of us have arrived here surely should be regarded as lessons we can learn from. The more glaring failures of species management which we can expect to continue to haunt us all for the foreseeable future such as the introduction of mosquitoes, mongoose, miconia, coqui frogs, waiawi, kudzu, banana poca, and various feral ungulates are introductions most would agree pose significant threats to the ecosystem and our quality of life. These most egregious examples seem to have made little impression on characters like the perpetrators of the Big Isle deer introduction. I wonder how it is that anyone can express support for the under-handed and furtive act that brought these animals to the island without the consent of the greater community.
There could be a large market for hunts targeted at that part of the middle class that still has steady incomes... I see lots of potential for an untapped market.
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - rainyjim - 11-02-2012
Lol. Your post made me laugh out loud Seekir. This isn't some controlled environment or scientific experiment it's a living changing planet. I have yet to see any attempt at control over our environment create any difference meaningful enough to offset all of our blunders while attempting to control our environment. I'm not advocating anything at all, but I think your going a little over board stressing the introduction of new species. After all its a natural cycle and nearly every organism lives to reproduce and spread themselves. Also, I'm pretty sure life will go on with the introduction of deer. All I see when I read your post is: " NOT IN MY BACKYARD "
Cheers
rainyjim
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - pahoated - 11-02-2012
It's not just the deer, the sheep and goats are way out of control and with the drought, eating the bark off native trees. When hunters go after them, the sheep and goats just go up a few thousand feet and there aren't many hunters that will go after them on foot. These large mammals are destroying native ecosystems that are leading towards extinctions. They have no predators so that predator has to be us. DLNR is doing some eradication with helicopter hunting but its not that effective and the hunters complain the carcass then just goes to waste since it's usually too high up in altitude to go after. It seems a more effective method might be some cooperative effort with the DLNR helicopters and the hunters. Have the helicopter drive the goats and sheep down to lower elevations and have hunters waiting there to pick them off. Seems like it would be a lot more effective plus the carcasses are available for rending.