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+--- Thread: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=17312)
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RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - alaskyn66 - 10-02-2017
| The lands on top of Mauna Kea are still very sacred to the hundreds of thousands of Hawaiian people living in today's times.|
Did I miss something , I don't recall hundreds of thousands of people up there protesting. If I remember right it was a small group, perhaps a couple dozen people... a fraction of which were not even of hawaiin ethnicity.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Eric1600 - 10-02-2017
Gypsy, the specific area where TMT will be built has no history of anything religious, in fact no history there at all. You attempt to make it into some big cultural crisis and getting "erased", however:
1. It's not true.
2. Even protesters agree the telescopes don't interfere with them as per their testimony.
3. The summit ceremonies are all new things that started after the road and telescopes were built.
The TMT is not going to interfere or harm anything these people claimed in court. And there are Kanaka that agree with that as well. So I don't know why you're always inserting yourself into this argument and picking a specific side because it is obviously a point of disagreement among Hawaiians as well. Stirring up more **** just clouds the waters and makes it harder for the Hawaiian community to come to a mutual understanding and agreement.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 10-02-2017
gypsy,
Thanks for your in depth analysis of who I am and what I do. It's about as accurate as your claim that your family sailed to Maryland with Christopher Columbus. Let me rephrase that, it's exactly as accurate as your family sailing to Maryland with Columbus.
I have a sincere suggestion for you; if you don't like your comments to be questioned, or as you've described it "bashing," why don't you look into their truthfulness and accuracy before you post them? You would then avoid almost everything you've complained about. jmo does not give you free rein to pull a rabbit out of an empty hat.
The Donner Party really wasn't that great of a party, was it?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 10-02-2017
Alaskn66, Top of the morning to you.
There are 500,000 Hawaiians living today, half of which have left the islands for various but mostly economic reasons. The 250,000 or less still living on the Islands should be considered at this point even if they did not stand or rise with the other protectors or warriors on Mauna Kea. Lets say that there are about 200,000 thousand Hawaiian Keiki living today and one million a year to split between them.
How much would each Hawaiian Keiki recieve a year in this land and resource trade? Minus the administration expenses also.
If one is a resident of Alaska they receive an annual payment around each Christmas for the Oil resource being taken. This payment is to every resident and not the selected or chosen few, the Alaska yearly payment is worth much more than what's offered by these TMT and state oppressors. Indians are recognized people today, unlike the Kanaka race. Many of the Indians today stand in long lines monthly at their nearest reservation Casino receiving more than the Hawaiian keiki are being offered in their trade of their valued lands and resources.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2187456/Shakopee-Mdewakanton-Tribe-Casino-revenue-pays-member-1million-year.html
http://www.smokymountainnews.com/news/item/9427-cherokee-banks-brace-for-rush-when-casino-checks-go-out
https://www.reuters.com/article/alaska-payment-fund/alaska-residents-to-receive-record-payment-from-oil-royalty-fund-idUSL1N11N03U20150917
Where are many of the Hawaiians not all, lining up to receive their monthly or yearly payments for the use of their resources and most valued lands like the summit of Mauna Kea? Please don't say the welfare office to get a EBT card so they can continue to pay tourism food prices.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Eric1600 - 10-02-2017
Originally posted by gypsy69
Where are many of the Hawaiians not all, lining up to receive their monthly or yearly payments for the use of their resources and most valued lands like the summit of Mauna Kea? Please don't say the welfare office to get a EBT card so they can continue to pay tourism food prices.
I see you're ignoring my other points. Anyway, you chose an odd example which proves yourself wrong.
The money paid to Alaskans "... was designed to be an investment where at least 25% of the oil money would be put into a dedicated fund for future generations, who would no longer have oil as a resource."
DHHL has a similar setup from the state. The Alaskan oil fund (where those checks come from) grew from half billion to 52 billion and the DHHL has about half billion. In terms of getting paychecks for the money earned from viewing space, even 100% of zero is still zero. Or are you now suggesting Hawaii should start drilling for oil offshore?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 10-02-2017
500,000 Hawaiians living today, half of which have left the islands for various but mostly economic reasons
Standing in the way of progress will not fix the local economy.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - alaskyn66 - 10-02-2017
Gypsy69.. my wife is native American. Don't get me started on that whole deal.. we often joke that some hawaiians are already living on a reservation... they just don't realize it. (Hawaii homelands looking at you.. ) in alaska and many other places they made the best of it and started corporations that are doing very well.that is they get yearly dividends... ect..Hawaii natives don't realize the power they could have.. and that's the joke.if hawaii natives played the game.. they could make their own rules collect the money, and not have to worry about their kids future.
: tldr.. call yourself a tribe , get federal recognition.. build casinos or sell pull tabs.. profit.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 10-02-2017
call yourself a tribe , get federal recognition..
Irony being: the "Native Hawaiians" couldn't even agree on that point.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 10-02-2017
Eric1600, top of the morning to you too sir.
I am not ignoring your many points any more than you and others want to continue to ignore the side opposing the Telescope development on Mauna Kea. You write that "I am stirring up more **** that clouds the waters and makes it harder for the Hawaiian community to come to a mutual understanding and agreement." On that note, It's refreshing to see that even you can recognize their are more than one side to this discussion. For the past 50 years one side has always got their way with the addition of yet another large telescope on the summit of Mauna Kea.
If you truly would like to see an understanding or agreement within the Hawaiian community then allow the other side to have their voice and facts recognized for ONCE. This is where they say enough is enough, NO more Telescopes will be developed on their sacred lands. One side has gotten 13 or more large telescopes developed on the top of Mauna Kea over the past five decades while the other side has got a kick in the *** 13 or more times.
Most of The Hawaiian community including the side that has always had their way with another telescope project being allowed. They should be able to recognize that the many other large telescopes that have been developed in the past 50 years has not been the answer for their people and neither will this Astronomer's Disneyland dream they call the TMT project. jmo
Are you saying or writing that NO new Hawaiian ceremonies, traditions, burials, stacking of rocks, or events are allowed on the top of their mountain of Mauna Kea because they were made or started after a road or foreign telescope was built?
Why make it harder for some of the Hawaiian people today to continue to live and learn in their traditional ways?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - PaulW - 10-02-2017
Gypsy, as usual, you show that you are unable to comprehend the issues here. Building a telescope is in no way comparable to drilling an oil well.
You say 250,000 Hawaiians have left the islands for mostly economic reasons. Wouldn't it be great if we had a boost to the economy here? Like a billion dollar development?
Thank you for improving this island by leaving.