+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=17312)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - TomK - 08-07-2016
PS.
"The big problem with TMT is that it is being totally emotionally driven, all kinds of wild claims from both sides, very little factual information."
<bolding is mine>
This is why no one in Puna should invest in an irony meter. I've never heard of one being certified as pahoated-proof and doubt you'll get your money back when it explodes.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Eric1600 - 08-08-2016
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
Mehana Kehoi brings up the potential conflict of interest between BLNR member, Stanley Roehrig and PUEO group leader, Keahi Warfield, who share the same business address (101 Aupuni Street, Suite 124). Curious, at best; didn't know this tidbit prior to today. Roehrig should recuse himself from the process, at this point.
This doesn't mean much because those are just law offices, they are not really business locations. Just because you've picked the same law office as someone else (especially in a small town) in no way means what she implies. It is extremely common to use your lawyers office as a physical location when starting a new business or non-profit because you usually don't have a location, mailing address or any type of organization setup yet.
I was disturbed by her denial when she said, "I will not let this process divide our community and our people."
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - opihikao - 08-08-2016
quote:Well, you are entitled to your opinion, Eric1600. Perception is still part of the problem here. The statement, "not really business locations" is an honorable intent to "poo-poo" the disclosure. I have dealt with many lawyers, and not once have any of our lawyers had other "businesses" as their address. Ever. Additionally, it's not PUEO's address, it's an established non-profit entity that Warfield has been part of for years, right? (Rhetoric, no need answer; it's fact)
Originally posted by Eric1600
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
Mehana Kehoi brings up the potential conflict of interest between BLNR member, Stanley Roehrig and PUEO group leader, Keahi Warfield, who share the same business address (101 Aupuni Street, Suite 124). Curious, at best; didn't know this tidbit prior to today. Roehrig should recuse himself from the process, at this point.
This doesn't mean much because those are just law offices, they are not really business locations. Just because you've picked the same law office as someone else (especially in a small town) in no way means what she implies. It is extremely common to use your lawyers office as a physical location when starting a new business or non-profit because you usually don't have a location, mailing address or any type of organization setup yet.
I was disturbed by her denial when she said, "I will not let this process divide our community and our people."
Secondly, Ms. Kehoi's statement is not "denial"; it is showing respect to the opponent, which is quite Hawaiian in nature. If you read Mr. Ha's response, he (and PUEO) has/have aloha for her.
Now, what IS disturbing is the continued spin on facts. The documents NOT delivered by the AG to Wurderman is what delayed that particular part of the hearing, thus, it continues on Friday. Amano's reaction to this (on the video) was priceless. The AG's lawyer was professionally (by Amano) taken to task. She wiped that smug smirk right off his face.
I understand your vast knowledge of scientific evidence with regard to the telescopes, and your support of TMT. However, there are two sides to this issue, and it is my belief you do not understand the cultural aspect, nor the intent (ie. "denial" statement) of positions taken by the opposing parties ("protestors/protectors").
Again, if this process was done properly in the first place, TMT and all of us (at our taxpaying expense) would not be going through this excruciating exercise. Talk about disturbing!
At the very least, Judge Amano is the perfect person to handle this, and has done so very well so far. I trust her sound judgement will allow for fairness, and restore some credibility to the permitting process.
JMO.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Justin - 08-08-2016
If Judge Amano has now gone on record and stated that she has no interest (or at least no discretion/authority) in hearing and deciding issues related to sovereignty and the ability of the state to issue permits, what are the grounds left to contest? That some forms weren't filled out 100% correctly and need to be re-done? If that's it, that sounds a lot like being obstructionist simply for the sake of it, in the hopes of driving up costs for TMT and hoping they will leave.
I appreciate that the attorneys for everyone involved could have (and should have) been more accurate in what they stated the first time around, but I also know almost every filing I've ever seen in Court could be found to have one or more errors if analyzed with a fine-tooth comb. The same goes for any permit application that any of us have ever filled out - I'm sure many of them are not 100% accurate, and if someone wanted to find flaws to make us go through the effort of re-filing, they probably could. [Also, as an aside on a specific point, small businesses often list the address of their attorneys as their address, as it makes it much easier for the business and the attorneys to stay on top of required notices, taxes, etc.]
The fact that none of the protestors identified or raised any of these alleged legal defects in the 7 years leading up to the intended first day of construction reinforces what (I believe) is going on here - people weren't paying attention to the legal process as it originally progressed, and when they found out the TMT was being built they protested for cultural/sovereignty reasons, and are now after-the-fact identifying real and tangible administrative errors as the "actual" basis for their objection. If so, that's fine, but at least be candid about what is going on - I think that is much more likely to garner respect from those who disagree.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - knieft - 08-08-2016
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
Again, if this process was done properly in the first place, TMT and all of us (at our taxpaying expense) would not be going through this excruciating exercise.
Hey opihikao,
I think I may be repeating myself content-wise with my previous question to you. But perhaps it will make more sense to you this time. What is wrong with my rewording below:
""Again, if this protest had never happened in the first place, TMT and all of us (at our taxpaying expense) would not be going through this excruciating exercise.""
If my rewording ignores the state's responsibility, it may be that your wording ignores the protestors'.
Or as a famous fictional character has said (would work better if you were named Maude, I admit):
"This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous. And, uh, a lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder's head."
I consider the TMT a done deal--in that it is over and will not happen. But to blame the State only...?
Cheers,
Kirt
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-08-2016
Thank you knieft.
A Big Lebowski reference was just what was needed at this point in the discussion.
If I might add, let's hope Judge Riki May Amano can follow in the Dude's footsteps (some of them, probably best not all of them in this case):
...sometimes there's a (wo)man ... I won't say a hero, 'cause, what's a hero? But sometimes, there's a (wo)man. And I'm talkin' about Judge Amano here. Sometimes, there's a (wo)man, well, (s)he's the (wo)man for
The moon kind of surprises me sometimes. I’ll be out at night and I’ll see a nice moon, and say, “Hey, that looks good.” Then I’ll say, “Oh sh-t, I went up there one time!” Kind of surprises me. It’s like there are two Moons, you know—the one that’s usually around, and then that one. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 08-08-2016
Opihikao, thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I see so many disturbing things about this process, you touched on only a few of them. This is so sickening to watch what I call bullies and puppets running over the rest of the public's rights while manipulating and dividing our many Hawaiian communities.
I don't trust the intentions of folks like Kaleikini, Ha, Ishibashi, and others in this TMT process anymore because of how invested they were in the process to increase Geothermal power from Puna "only". They did not help or make it a priority to get any of the health or environmental studies started out here in Puna before the increases. They also did not explore the option of geothermal resources and operations coming from other communities on Maui or Kona enough. Which would have put the geothermal power plants closer to the majority of those needing it and help prevent a greater loss or waste of the so called Pele's gift's along the way.
The TMT project may bring a 5-10 million dollar "a year" type of electricity bill with the project for the next 70 plus years. Most of which would be Geothermal produced electricity by the year the TMT project becomes operational, or soon after. Some Hawaiians and others would stand to gain in royalties and opportunities from this TMT project while the remaining majority of Hawaiians and other local residents here are sacrificing their way of life.
Personally, I find it harder to trust smug faced folks like Ashida, Kimura, Roahrig, Kenoi, UHH, the governor and others because of the feeling that big money may matter more at times than the people they were sworn in to represent. jmo
Did anyone ever get to hear what Mr Ferguson had to say about any or all of those motions he was concerned about? Also, did Mr, Kanuha get a chance to be heard?
Enough is Enough, the rest of these meetings or proceedings should just take place on the same sacred ground this TMT project wants to stand on for 70 years. The environmental concerns like dust increase that these proceedings could have or bring to the summit of Mauna Kea "if" they were held there would be minimal compared to what could be expected from the many TMT employees and tourist operations that would be taking place daily on the summit for the remainder of this century. jmo
P.S. Just joking about these proceedings possibly taking place atop the summit of Mauna Kea (this, of course, would be very disrespectful for many reasons).
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - leilanidude - 08-08-2016
"The TMT project may bring a 5-10 million dollar "a year" type of electricity bill with the project for the next 70 plus years. Most of which would be Geothermal produced electricity by the year the TMT project becomes operational, or soon after."
----------
gypsy - are you on meth or crack? There is no way the electric bill will be anywhere near that. Not even 1 million a year. More exaggerated lies.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 08-08-2016
Leilanidude, no crack or ice head here partner.
http://www.keckobservatory.org/recent/entry/astronomical_myths_facts
This article states that the keck observatory pay's $90,000 a month. That is like $80,000 more than $1 million a year. I was under the impression that the TMT was going to be bigger than all the other observatories and was going to require a lot more electricity to operate than the others.
Geothermal, OHA, UHH, and helco should naturally be very interested in this hearing process. I just don't think they should be such an important part or take time away from our communities testimony when obviously they are on the side of building the TMT for their profit reasons. jmo
Articles like this one help explain just how much work universities like UCLA have done for this TMT project.
http://phys.org/news/2013-08-mission-world-advanced-telescope-major.html
No mention of thanks for the land from UHH, Hawaii, our BLNR, or the many Hawaiians that obviously may be affected.
edited to add link.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - leilanidude - 08-08-2016
Newer tech, less electricity use. But you claim 5-10 million...