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+--- Thread: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? (/showthread.php?tid=22678)
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - AaronM - 11-23-2022
Silly me.
Where would we be without government subsidized committees and the associated meetings, surveys and studies?
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - kalianna - 11-23-2022
There is always the bureaucracy but beyond that, there are many science jobs as well as strong financial support for UH that allows students the ability to learn how to do those jobs.
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - TomK - 11-24-2022
The real problem here is that despite OMKM's previous failures from well over a decade ago, they turned themselves into a very efficient organization that managed Mauna Kea well. However, despite that, the government bought into the minority argument that something needed to change without understanding what that change was or might mean. And so we now have the Mauna Kea Stewardship and Oversight Authority which will take five years before they are in place. That means everyone invested in the TMT dispute, the MK lease agreement that ends in 2033 for all the observatories, and those on either side of the debate are put in limbo for another five years with no understanding of who or what makes decisions.
(11-23-2022, 10:51 PM)kalianna Wrote: There is always the bureaucracy but beyond that, there are many science jobs as well as strong financial support for UH that allows students the ability to learn how to do those jobs.
You are correct, but don't concentrate on science alone - many will think that relates to becoming an astronomer. Although there are local astronomers at the MKOS, most of the jobs are technicians, engineers and computer experts. Without those people, the observatories would fail, and many if not most of those jobs are done by locals. And this is all funded by the observatories, including enabling UH and community colleges to produce young talent and give them opportunities for a decent and well-paid career.
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - kalakoa - 11-24-2022
put in limbo for another five years with no understanding of who or what makes decisions
It's how things don't get done in Hawaii. I further assume everyone is OK with it, because the process never changes.
Anyone want to start a pool on the real completion date? We all know it's more than 5 years.
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - AaronS - 11-24-2022
The new management authority should've been established yesterday. I'm dead serious, as existing telescope facilities need about 5 years to start the process to decommissioning facilities if the master lease isn't extended. This means the new authority will have jump head first into individual lease extensions with the telescope operators in 2028. UH cannot negotiate new leases with the telescope operators - only the new management authority can.
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - TomK - 11-25-2022
(11-24-2022, 09:09 PM)AaronS Wrote: The new management authority should've been established yesterday. I'm dead serious, as existing telescope facilities need about 5 years to start the process to decommissioning facilities if the master lease isn't extended. This means the new authority will have jump head first into individual lease extensions with the telescope operators in 2028. UH cannot negotiate new leases with the telescope operators - only the new management authority can.
Couldn't agree more. This whole five-year thing, as I mentioned above, puts everyone in limbo. No serious or impactful decisions can be made and we're now in a much more confusing position than before.
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - AaronM - 11-27-2022
The Hawaiian merry go round of let's not do anything but find a way to get paid for it knows no bounds and is actually impressive in a depressing kind of way.
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - kalakoa - 11-27-2022
let's not do anything but find a way to get paid for it
That would actually be an improvement over the current situation, wherein people are getting paid to actively obstruct everything.
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - TomK - 03-17-2023
For anyone out there who is interested:
https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2023/03/16/hawai%CA%BBi-supreme-court-affirms-luc-in-maunakea-case/
"(BIVN) – In a split decision, the Hawaiʻi Supreme Court on Wednesday affirmed a 2019 State Land Use Commission decision that the LUC lacked jurisdiction over the conservation district lands on Maunakea."
I know little about this case, but thought I'd put it out there for those that might know more about it.