Astronomy in Hawaii under threat?

[TomK]

I thought it best to separate this from the TMT thread. I've mentioned once or twice that if it is passed, house bill 2024 will almost certainly end any chance of the TMT being built in Hawaii and will also likely end astronomy in Hawaii.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/04/06...astronomy/

""The governor says he’s worried a much-debated Mauna Kea stewardship bill could end the $100 million astronomy industry on Hawaii island and with it, the stalled TMT project.

“It does seem to be clear that it is intended to end astronomy on Mauna Kea and I do have a concern about that,” Gov. David Ige told Hawaii News Now.

House Bill 2024 was supposed to be up for a vote Tuesday in the Senate Ways and Means Committee, but that got deferred until Friday.

During his interview with HNN, Ige appeared to be frustrated with lawmakers.

“Are they intending to shut down astronomy on Hawaii Island? They should be clear about it. Do they support astronomy or do they believe it should be stopped?” said Ige.""

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

“It does seem to be clear that it is intended to end astronomy on Mauna Kea 

Probably got a good head start when a certain governor didn't do anything to enforce the rule of law when a road was illegally blockaded.

[kalianna]

But then as counter-argument he mentions his 10 point plan. Thatʻs the first Iʻve heard about it in several years. I donʻt think anything has changed since 2016.

[TomK]

You can't expect a politician, especially one as weak and hesitant as Ige, to be consistent.

[ChunksterK]

This is yet more evidence that we have both a weak governor and weak journalists.  This was supposed to be an interview, but the most obvious question wasn't even asked:  "Will you veto this bill if it passes, Governor?"

[MyManao]

I've mentioned once or twice that if it is passed, house bill 2024 will almost certainly end any chance of the TMT being built in Hawaii and will also likely end astronomy in Hawaii..

Having not followed this issue closely, so being unable to speak to the makeup of the newly proposed management group directly, but seeing it made up of a broader more diverse group that puts astronomy as one of many rather than the only focus on the mountain, I have to wonder if your fears are but an expression of losing absolute control to a process in which the astronomy industry has to play nice with others? And, realizing that playing nice with others may not be one of the industry's finer points, fearing that the loss of control may be your undoing rather than a path towards a greater integration with the community.

'Tis a shame, eh? Maybe you should do studies, go to workshops, on how to play nice with others. Gee, you all could have a convention at some posh hotel, bask in the sun and surf, enjoy Mai Tai’s, and learn about The Politics of Astronomy..

I personally think astronomy is great. My father was an astronomer, friends and family have worked on the summit since like forever, and I have grandkids that went to private schools on the educational subsidies offered employees in the industry. My family has benefited directly in profound ways from the industry here, and still I see a controversy where there should not be any. And, believing it takes two to tangle, I think the folks in the mucky muck jobs that run the industry need to figure out how they've screwed this up or they'll lose the whole thing..

Maybe you fear those guys don't have the gumption to figure this all out? And, to be honest, especially when we look at where we are now, I think that's a reasonable fear.

I also think ground based astronomy is a phase that's poised to give way to space. And Mauna Kea's status as a premier location for astronomy is passing to the heavens themselves. Of course that doesn’t change the mountain’s preeminent position as the pinnacle of the Pacific, and the only place of its kind in the northern hemisphere, and the fact there will always be a place for ground based astronomy, so yeah, playing nice with others is still the ticket.

It’s a shame that’s so difficult, isn’t it?

[HawaiiEV]

The way they talk it’s like they learned nothing. No listen. Should try and interact with the community at large, on the level as equal humans. You’re the ones who are visiting and you can even humble yourself to equality? Shame

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TMT didn’t mess it up it just revealed the truth about those occupying the mountain.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

And, realizing that playing nice with others

Have you followed the process for this alternative management group?
Have you read what the bill's sponser proposed, how he stacked the deck, and what the committee members said?
If you did, you wouldn't be surprised why some are worried about the future of astronomy on the mountain.
If you did, you'd realize playing nice with others applies to advocates on both sides of the issue.

You may also like to listen again to videos of the protestors on the mountain a few years ago, their black and white comments, their false claims, their presence which did not result in a zero waste system like the TMT will be.

[MyManao]

Have you followed..

Yeah, I get all that, Edge, but still you have to grok the point is not some version of not liking the game, or the rules, or the players, but achieving a desired result. If the mucky mucks want a particular result it's up to them to do the dance accordingly. Not tell everyone how to play the game, but play to win.

And since the OP couched it in terms of the repetitiveness of all this I'll say it again.. the TMT guys should be talking with the Hawaiians rather than state..

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

the TMT guys should be talking with the Hawaiians rather than state..

Who are THE HAWAIIANS?
The 75% in favor of the TMT, or the 25% against?
And who individually is in charge of either group?
Can you name names of their leaders?  That the 75% or 25% all agree are their leaders?