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+--- Thread: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons (/showthread.php?tid=12350)
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - opihikao - 08-13-2013
Add as a pro, secondary use for agriculture. Drying wood, fruit, etc. Farmers should get a break on this if farming in Puna. Another direct benefit.
As to location, unfortunately, the east rift zone won't move. Puna is the "motherload" for geothermal. Hualalai is being looked at, however, the now defunct geothermal subzone map shows little (approx. 30-35%) chance of energy there. Puna subzone map dictates up to 95% production possibility.
How do we motivate our State officials and the PUC to do what is right for Puna (as host community)? IMO, HELCO needs to be a public owned utility in the true sense of the phrase. Being a producer and distributor makes for the existing monopoly.
Too bad newer technology is not being currently used to inhibit the perceived/alleged health issue and noise complaints. It is available, but as stated by PGV to the County during a council meeting last year, it's too costly.
JMO.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Obie - 08-13-2013
I probably live as close or closer to Pohoiki than anyone on Punaweb.
They can build it in my backyard if they want.
After living for several year next to the Socal Edison El Segundo power plant,I would take PGV any day.
One of the uses of the left over heat could have been environmentally friendly recycled lumber for decking. Unfortunately Hawaii County banned the needed feed-stock, grocery bags.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Rene Siracusa - 08-13-2013
So many proposed uses for geothermal being mentioned, leads me to wonder: why haven't they done it already? Surely there is a reason we don't know about?
False initial premise that geothermal is safe. There was the blowout in 1991 that spewed H2S, other gasses and heavy metals into the community for more than 30 days. Drs. Rubin and Kurohara examined lots of people and did find health impacts. One police officer who responded to the emergency was rushed to the hospital, and an infant as well (kept on oxygen for 4 days). And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
On Jan. 15, 1998 PGV began to compile and submit Incident Reports of Equipment Malfunctions/Upset Conditions, and during that time (including 3/15/13) there were 69 incidents that released H2S, etc. and 1 that released isopentane. These numbers are based on the actual reports that PGV provided to the geothermal health study working group (of which I have a copy). They were reported to the State Dept. of Health
The working group also has reviewed recent scientific studies printed in peer-reviewed journals that link geothermal in Iceland and New Zealand with asthma, cancer and other ailments. It's not as safe as the proponents have let the public believe. Not surprising that you support it when you have been deliberately kept in the dark about the problems...
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - snorkle - 08-13-2013
It's silly to use obsolete grid dependent technology when there are alternatives that not only are cheaper for the consumer, but break the monopoly held by HELCO.
Oil-Geothermal=HELCO monopoly
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Bullwinkle - 08-13-2013
Germany at latitude 50 something has the equivalent of 20 nuke plants running right now... no guesswork, planning or exposure (no matter how slight) to toxins and no need for a doomsday plan if an operator should fall asleep at the geothermal wheel (it happens - see go airlines over flies Hilo)
why screw around with toxic super heated gas at latitude 20 ..... ulterior motive? - who is holding geothermal stock n Hawaii?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/26/us-climate-germany-solar-idUSBRE84P0FI20120526
solar radiation table - one could make the claim that our 20 degree latitude is much more beneficial in free energy supply than geothermal ever will provide - what gives? - or just more double speak and weasel wording?
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/1961-1990/redbook/atlas/serve.cgi
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - geochem - 08-13-2013
Geothermal could support or spin off a number of local industries using waste heat or geothermal heat that, compared to fossil resources, is far cheaper once the production infrastructure is installed. To name a few: processing of produce; dried foods; drying of hardwood (all who knew that koa, Hawaii's signature wood, has to be shipped to the mainland to be properly kiln-dried please raise your hands...); sterilization of growing media; production of ice (for the fishing industry); conditioning of greenhouse production systems. All these things were discussed, and many successfully tested, in the early days of geothermal and/or are in use in other states and countries. All would stimulate economic development that is accessible to individual entrepreneurs or small huis in the Puna district or island-wide (e.g. coffee drying) if geo developed in other parts of the island. Many would support the agriculture industry on the island. If power production can be developed without absurdly excessive regulatory and monitoring requirements and costs, it might even lower the cost of electricity (PURPA, which required the original tie to the cost of oil is now only a distant memory) and attract other desirable industries to Hawaii - but I know that is the last thing some who live in Puna and elsewhere on the island want... while poverty seems to be the most abundant product of our current reliance on oil.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Bullwinkle - 08-13-2013
reads like double speak to me - kind of thing the coal lobby used to produce
just the stats facts please- not speculation - lets start with failure rates and required liability insurance premiums to cover the losses to east Hawaii if it blows - worst case scenario planning not best case planning - being the accepted practice.
See fukashima - still leaking radiation and now the Country of Japan is paying to freeze the ground to prevent leaks - Topco the owner of the plant out of cash
If the japanese got blindsided - what would lead one to believe an outside manufacturer and conglomerate will be able to protect Puna in a worst case scenario?
The Germans replaced 20 nukes with solar - since Fukashima a little over 2 years.....would power all of Hawaii - even your coveted high speed rail.... safely - thats fact #1 one
Hydrogen sulfide nasty erosive stuff that can kill - another fact
large scale solar proven and cost efficient - more facts
geothermal an experimental technology that will generate huge profits for speculators getting in at the ground floor and using Puna Geo as a n experiment to prove its safety - on the backs of the locals
At the least the financial rewards should go to those at risk - not a bunch of start up risk takers and carpetbaggers from off island
Iceland where they dont have any sun has no solar option - we dont need their options at latitude 20 where every square meter of roof can generate 3kw per day safely.......
The extreme solar radiation at our latitude is like free risk free money - free energy on the roof all around and we would rather take a risk on a thermal blow out - havent convinced me yet in spite of all the flowery words and upbeat propaganda...... just the facts please - usually associated with verifiable statistics and "numbers" as my dr calls real world data.....
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Bullwinkle - 08-13-2013
speaking of fact - how many blow outs or unexplained "issues" reports of hydrogen sulfide escapes.... in those 20 years .... any studies done on Anosmia - very often first sign of over exposure to H2so4. Hydrogen sulfide first takes away the ability to smell it - and everything else - than fatal levels can kill without being detected ..........
I'll be back in the morning to tell you how I really feel
by the way - with everyone on the blogs all day - where are all the working folks - is Punaweb just another elitist activity? - grin
Cruisers rallying cry " I wonder what the workin folk are up to today - big words for those of us who sail on the road on $5 a day grin.....
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Guest - 08-13-2013
Because you have not read it - a fact does not exist.
Maybe, just maybe, that's the beginning of the core of the problem!
Maybe, you should consider reading.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Obie - 08-13-2013
Here is a fact about solar panels,for solar panels to be cost effective,they have to last 20 to 25 years.What lasts for 20 to 25 years in Hawaii ??
My home is on it's third solar water heating system since 1980.
Read this link :
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/business/energy-environment/solar-powers-dark-side.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0