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+--- Thread: Puna Geothermal (/showthread.php?tid=12455)
RE: Puna Geothermal - opihikao - 08-29-2013
Apologies for the term utilized (social terrorism). After watching this since True Geothermal was the "owner/developer",and the 25+ years of reading lots of documentation, the resurrecting of health issues and drilling all over Puna is not yet proven as fact. It is my term given the state of the discussion today, and the continued dissemination of non-factual information.
The past two years of this subject has been political, to say the least. Still waiting for facts on geothermal today, and get frustrated when rumors are thrown around. If this thread is about buying property in Leilani Estates, my apologies again.
There are some great buys in Leilani Estates, however, they need more police presence in the general area given the growth. JMO.
RE: Puna Geothermal - Kiana - 08-30-2013
Aloha! We live in Leilani and have owned property here since 2003. I guess I am biased in opinion, but also experienced with living in this subdivision, and near the plant and on the rift.
We are very happy. It is a beautiful subdivision, the roads are great, most areas of the neighborhood have nice homes with residents who care for their property. We have mail delivery!!
Our Neighborhood Watch is strong and they do report crime statistics that they get from police sources. Leilani consistently has the lowest crime rates in Puna. We feel very safe, yet we do have good neighbors that watch out for each other. Yes, very recently, there have been some very big headline crime events (the speargun shooting, the in-home robbery, the car jacking). But this is a recent run and overall, there is little crime here compared to other parts of Puna. As said by others, location is key and if you buy here with good neighbors and few rentals nearby, it is golden.
It is quiet (no roosters) and peaceful here. The dog leash law is enforced (as best that it can be) and it is great to feel safe walking our sweet and submissive labrador without a lot of worry of attack by loose and aggressive dogs. The rift is a minor concern, but HO insurance is very expensive. We take the risk without too much worry, as do most who live on our lovely Puna volcano.
We are within the one mile radius of the plant and do hear the hum at times but it is not constant and it is not loud. With our lovely windward rain showers and coquis, it is hardly noticeable when it is humming. It is not audible in other parts of Leilani. The drilling of wells is horribly loud and it really sucks. We hope that the idea of limited drilling hours becomes part of any new geothermal development as they go 24 hours when they drill. But, new well drilling is rare (we've experienced it once). We have smelled the plant once in our back yard, which was not bothersome.
Okay, there's another opinion to add to the mix. We have no regrets for purchasing and landing here in Leilani. It is heaven and truly paradise as is most of east Hawaii. Good luck with your search!
RE: Puna Geothermal - Rene Siracusa - 08-30-2013
HELCO has put out an RFP to geothermal developers to build more plants in the Puna area. PGV has indicated that it will submit a proposal. So has a new group, IDG, who has been invited to use the Kealoha properties at Pohoiki.
PGV uses the Best Available Control Technology from 20 years ago - grandfathered in. They have not updated it because they have not been required to. In a few years when their present permit comes up for renewal, that may change. Hopefully they will be required to make periodic upgrades. Probably one of the reasons that they have had so many problems is because their equipment is old. If HELCO accepts their RFP and if PUC accepts it, I hope that regularly updated equipment will be mandated.
Leilani is a lovely subdivision, with good roads, 1 acre lots and lots of amenities. However, I would not consider purchasing property in lower Leilani or any low lying lot (H2S is a heavy gas and settles in low spots). They have CC and Rs which you may find restrictive (or not), so make sure you check them out before you commit. They also have infestations of miconia and albizia, as well as coqui frogs (if you are a light sleeper, close all your windows).
RE: Puna Geothermal - geochem - 08-30-2013
Rene, Please try to be more accurate in your statements: HELCO invited proposals from any developer for geothermal power from any location on the island. They did not specifically request "developers to build more plants in Puna" - in my reading of the RFP, they would prefer production from areas other than Puna - presumably because their demand is growing faster on the Kona side of the island. You also, by implication, repeat the claim that H2S settles out of the steam plume because it's heavier than air. That is not true: at steam temperatures - 100C and above - H2S is about 10% less dense than ambient air.
Leilani Estates is one of the nicest subdivisions in Puna. The roads are well maintained and many nice homes are built in that subdivision. It is, however, within the surface expression of the rift zone: that patch of ground WILL be covered by lava flows at some point in the future. No way to tell when: next week? next century? You may have a few hours notice that an eruption is about to happen on the lower rift - not much chance that you will have a lot more than that - but a significant chance that you could have less than that. Everyone living on the rift zone should recognize that they are living in a geologically active zone - likely with the highest aggregate geologic hazards in the US - and that their homes could disappear with very little warning...
Durant's comment: "Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice" is more true here than anywhere.
RE: Puna Geothermal - snorkle - 08-31-2013
Geochem says:
" You may have a few hours notice that an eruption is about to happen on the lower rift - not much chance that you will have a lot more than that - but a significant chance that you could have less than that. Everyone living on the rift zone should recognize that they are living in a geologically active zone - likely with the highest aggregate geologic hazards in the US - and that their homes could disappear with very little warning.."
____________________________________________________________________
Response:
This is very true, and exactly why the energy future of our Island has no business being located there.
It's one thing for a resident to want to live in this magical area; people have been here for centuries. The smarter ones build modular and move out of the way of the lava; just like the Hawaiians have always done.
It's another thing for a big Corporation to spend millions on infrastructure that "WILL be covered by lava flows at some point in the future"(geochem)
There's a reason that there are no big resorts here in Puna Makai.
RE: Puna Geothermal - geochem - 09-01-2013
Nice try snorkle, but large corporations have several advantages over homeowners: they have access to sophisticated risk analysts/analysis to make decisions on how and where to invest that the average homeowner doesn't have; they also spread the risk over thousands of investors. It's unlikely that any single investor has, or will have, >$100K exposure to the loss of a power plant in Puna - pretty much every new homeowner, as well as many current ones, will have at least twice that level of exposure. Another disadvantage that the rest of the County and State's residents get to share with the homeowners in the high lava flow risk areas is that there is a continual demand for government investment and services in the high hazard zones. When the lava flows roll over that infrastructure, everyone loses - not just the residents of the district. The east rift zone should never have been subdivided for residential development. Many residents have no clue what they are risking by building in the lava flow hazard zone 1 and 2 areas.
RE: Puna Geothermal - snorkle - 09-01-2013
I actually have an advantage over large corporations here. I've built in such a way as to be able to move if/when the lava comes. In 1990 I helped several of the many families that relocated their homes from Kalapana. This was a great learning experience for me.
Thank you though, for making my point for me. You say: [i]"When the lava flows roll over that infrastructure, everyone loses - not just the residents of the district.
You then say that although residents have no clue, "large corporations have access to sophisticated risk analysts/analysis to make decisions on how and where to invest"
So you're saying that If someone builds next to a large Corporation, they have a much better chance of being spared? Pele knows when a "risk analysis" has been run?
I guess that makes sense. [
]
RE: Puna Geothermal - Bullwinkle - 09-01-2013
In my experience large corporations buy insurance to cover the risk - they don't do risk analysis in house - or should not unless they have deep pockets and are fool hardy ie liability if it goes wrong....
The ISO - insurance services office or other rating companies determine risk factors for most policies.... that risk analysis generated by an inspection and research into flood zones, lava zones and fire zones etc, determines rates - the info really pretty cheap and available - in a past life I did on site inspections for the ISO.
I dont think PGV knows where the the safer spots are - nor do I think you will find some one in the know - agreeing that risk in rift zones is either localised or predictable - if that were the case - lava insurance would be cheap and easy.
http://www.iso.com/
RE: Puna Geothermal - opihikao - 09-01-2013
snorkle stated: "This is very true, and exactly why the energy future of our Island has no business being located there.
It's one thing for a resident to want to live in this magical area; people have been here for centuries. The smarter ones build modular and move out of the way of the lava; just like the Hawaiians have always done."
Response:
With all due respect, "magical area"???? We have been here for generations. Magical, you say? You have NO idea. The few who grew up here in Puna, for generations, consider our piko, our aina, sacred.
We never built "modular" and "moved out of the way". Ever. My Tutu and Papa stayed, no matter the flow. We all did. You know why? The lava moves around us. When the blood of Pele runs through your veins, the lava splits in two and goes around your aina, and connects when it has past the "boundary". We live it. My Tutu would get us "hot cocoa and cracker" while we watched the lava from her kitchen. [
] It was part of life.Leilani Estates in the old days, was a very, very different environment. The growth has been a detriment to our "magical" aina. The history around Leilani Estates area is deep, let the truth be known. Stories abound. Akualele flew over that area in preparation for battle. It is somewhat telling, given the situation today.
Be ever vigilant, not just there, but in all the Kapoho, Pohoiki, Opihikao, Kalapana, Kapahua, Kau area,and make certain actions and words are accurate and just. This area will "chew you up and spit you out", if you are not "pono". In the true sense.
As we move forward, those of us who attempt to accept change, do so. However, we never forget our culture. As kanaka maoli, we (my ohana, a very large one) accept the gift of our Tutu, not produced by a foreigner, but hopefully, by our own people. We should be able to manage our Akua given resource, to help ALL of us.
The East Rift Zone is not going to move.
Geothermal has been a part of our culture since the days of King Kalakaua. In 1881, King David Kalakaua of Hawaii and several of his closest advisors paid a visit to New York. During this visit, Kalakaua sought the counsel of Thomas Edison regarding an extraordinary vision – the possibility to harness the myriad natural resources that Hawaii possesses to create power. As a result, Honolulu became one of the first Western cities to have electric streetlights, powered by a nearby hydroelectric plant.
The problem is we allowed a foreign entity,and the State, to dictate how we utilize our own resource. It is obvious Puna is the area where the energy is. It's been there forever. We must move forward, and if people can not deal with it, move. Period.
JMO.
RE: Puna Geothermal - geochem - 09-01-2013
There are lots of other places on the island to build houses - there aren't a lot of other places (known) on the island to access a geothermal resource. If/when there are, I expect that they will become the preferred location for investment in resource development. My point in responding to microage97 wasn't really to defend the development of geothermal in lower Puna, it was an attempt to make the point that there were greater risks to buying/building in Leilani Estates than the geothermal plant. And I stand by that assertion - no way I would risk much of my net worth on a rift zone as active as Kilauea's is.
"I dont think PGV knows where the the safer spots are" Really? So they accidentally put all their expensive hardware on top of a pu'u? or maybe they liked the view up there? It's where I'd build - if I HAD to build in the rift zone. But I don't, so I stay out of the rift zone - and advise anyone that asks to do the same thing.