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+--- Thread: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific (/showthread.php?tid=1960)
RE: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific - Bob Orts - 03-12-2008
If the survey is accurate, it appears the WTE Incinerator is a popular idea with large public support including a majority on the East Side. Maybe we just need to defer to the wishes of the people majority and instead focus on monitoring the process. Of course, if a smoking gun is found, that changes everything.
RE: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific - james weatherford - 03-12-2008
"If the survey is accurate..."
Why, after all, would Wheelabrator fabricate lies that serve their own vested interests? Because that's the way they operate.
gtill,
You seem especially perturbed by opposition to incineration.
You are also clearly uninformed.
Do you not need to be informed since you already know what you are going to say anway?
try listen
try learn
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific - Guest - 03-12-2008
Looking at this 1986 CNN Money Magazine article
I found something kind of interesting.....
In 1971 Dingman renamed the growing conglomerate Wheelabrator-Frye and moved it to that tax averse state, New Hampshire........
...By pushing most of the day-to-day operating chores onto local managers, Dingman claims he can run Henley with a headquarters staff of no more than 25 executives.....
....A potentially giant bonus on Henley's balance sheet is Signal Landmark Properties, which owns 3,471 acres on the island of Hawaii and 1,250 acres at Bolsa Chica, California. Bolsa Chica is waterfront property near Huntington Beach, carried on the Henley books at $26 million. Dingman claims that over many years, ''if developed properly, Bolsa Chica is worth hundreds of millions.
I'm still trying to connect the dots... but I'm just not sure how it's all incorporated.
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Today in History:
The civil rights law, later referred to as the Ku Klux Klan Act, is passed in the U.S., 1871.
RE: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific - gtill - 03-12-2008
Dr W, I prefer to observe, rather than listen! I have seen massive damage, both financially and to the very lifestyle of this island by Professors who were so sure of their own intelligence!
They drove 3 massivly expensive and eventually demoralizing projects to the citizenship here directly out of UH!
Please explain#1- Geothermal Ventures! #2 NELHA! and #3 Kohala Task Force
Fortunately, private enterprise came along and pulled your sorry okoles out of a hole with geothermal(and you dare to denigrate the managment's statements at a public hearing, basically claiming his plant leaks)! Then you back a county effort to loosen the money geothermal had put aside for affected residents and put it in a political slush fund!(remember the original UH drilled wells still exist, and are still shaky)!
Kohala Task force was a screw up of major proportion, and to show their eduation in coverup, try to find any historic info of it!
Then there was the NELHA project, which was succesful at generating electricity. However when the system ran into biofouling, the project had been taken over by UH oceanography dept, and the engineers were sent home, fish are more fun. Plus the electric part wasn't much fun! Now we're paying for nothing beneficial to anyone, so let's let NELHA provide her original promise!
Plus even with pele. the Islands have just been selected by the EPA as in the top 10 cleanest air states! Nelha is situated in a perfect place to blow what little bad air our rubbish would make, and as a private enterprise could create a direct recycling venture!
My previous question to you about your own Hui being govt funded had to be answered by Damon Why! Or are you not involved it that scenario, and made personal payments for the plantings? And if it dramatically fails, will you loose even an acre of your personal spread?
I detect a note of sarcasm by yourself against even the most sucessful private project, but nothing but understanding for the most agregious government screw up!
RE: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific - Guest - 03-12-2008
quote:Don't pull me into this [B)] I'm still trying to figure out WHAT side I am on.
Originally posted by gtill
My previous question to you about your own Hui being govt funded had to be answered by Damon Why!
There hasn't been enough investigated in my opinion, however, the island just doesn't have a whole of time to decide ecologically.[V]
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Today in History:
The civil rights law, later referred to as the Ku Klux Klan Act, is passed in the U.S., 1871.
RE: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific - james weatherford - 03-12-2008
gtill, hold the phone. You are throwing stones in the dark and don't know what your trying to hit.
your rants about "professors" at UH and NELHA? ... and, your point is? what's that to do with me?
"...against even the most sucessful private project, but nothing but understanding for the most agregious government screw up!"
huh?
please, give me an example of any specific words I have said that justify any of this.
if you are making these accusations out of willfull ignorance, which seems to be the case, get a life.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific - Guest - 03-12-2008
I posted a statement on Hunters Blog that turns out to be kind of irrelevant.[V] I'm glad he has "comment protection" on....Lesson learned.
I'm still curious as to the methodology of this survey.
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Today in History:
The civil rights law, later referred to as the Ku Klux Klan Act, is passed in the U.S., 1871.
RE: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific - gtill - 03-12-2008
You hit the wheelabrator rep with a series of questions no one could provide! and you stated that wheelabrator slimes the facts, you can't show it.
You did the same with the Geothermal Venture guy, he runs a wonderful plant but is incompetant!(remember, CC meeting). You basically suggested geo leaked gases!
But when the CC decided they needed money , put aside for residents ailments, it's time to rob the fund for political slush funds! Now we don't need air sampling, just hope for the best!
Remember the suggestion of dirty Monopoly games being played all over, Your take was, the AG has glimpsed the issue(so it's ok)?
It would be a much better use for govt funding for feeding the people, any other uses and people might starve!
RE: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific - Greg - 03-12-2008
Quote:
• NELHA began as "NELH" in 1974 when the Hawaii State Legislature created the Natural Energy Laboratory of Hawaii on 322 acres of land at Keahole Point. NELH was mandated to provide a support facility for research on the ocean thermal energy conversion (OTEC) process and its related technologies.
• In 1979, a barge dubbed "Mini-OTEC," anchored offshore of Keahole Point, demonstrated the world€s first production of net electrical power via closed-cycle OTEC.
• In 1980, after necessary environmental impact and other surveys were completed and master permits obtained, the NELH facilities and first pipeline to draw deep seawater from 2000 feet and surface seawater from 45 feet depths were constructed at Keahole Point.
• In 1981, shore-based OTEC research began with a project testing biofouling and corrosion countermeasures for the closed cycle OTEC process.
• By 1984 it had become apparent that the seawater being pumped up for OTEC research could also be channeled into many other profitable uses. New legislation legalized commercialization on state property allowing NELH to host new tenant business ventures.
• In 1985, the Legislature created the Hawaii Ocean Science and Technology (HOST) Park on an adjacent 548 acres at Keahole in anticipation of expansion needs of NELH's growing businesses.
• In 1990, HOST Park and NELH were melded into one agency, the NELH Authority (NELHA), attached to the Department of Business, Economic Development & Tourism of the Hawaii State Government.
• In 1998-99, the Legislature expanded the activities allowed at NELHA to include other business activities that could enhance economic development and generate additional revenues to support the growing park.
• Today, NELHA is "landlord" to nearly 30 thriving enterprises which generate about $30-40 million per year in total economic impact, including tax revenues, over 200 jobs, construction activity and high value product exports. Two pipeline systems pump deep and surface seawater to shore 24/7 and a third, the world's largest and deepest (to a depth of 3,000 feet), is being developed now.
________________________________________________________
gtill,
So what's the problem? It seems NELHA's early attempts to generate electricity weren't as viable as it's other technologies.
Also, the geothermal plant is indeed going to leak eventually. The capped wells are basically concrete poured into a steel sleeve. The corrosive gasses will ultimatly eat away the steel and escape into the atmosphere. (Keep that fund)
I'm still convinced that geothermal energy has a great potential for our island, but building a plant a quarter mile upwind of a subdivision? What were they thinking?
What's Wheelabrater thinking?.............$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
We need to cut down on our waste and recycle the rest.
RE: The Wheelabrator Survey was not Scientific - Guest - 03-13-2008
From todays WHT
"....There's nothing to lose," he said. "(By moving forward), we'll get more information for the public to look at. ... The environmental analysis would be done at no cost to the county, plus they (Wheelabrator) would be paying for consultant costs. I think this is a good deal."
Hello... Wheelabrator would only be paying there OWN CONSULTANTS who of course would say that it's a good thing for the county.
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Today in History:
Mrs. Mary Castle, one of the few early missionaries to the "Sandwich Island Mission" who lived into the 20th century, dies at the age of 87. She arrived in Hawai'i in 1843. 1907