+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Pointless thread (/showthread.php?tid=16816)
RE: Pointless thread - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 02-18-2016
we try to appeal to a more basic motivation: survival.
And if that doesn't work: entertainment.
Hilo, Hawaii. February 28th, 2015:
"The Hawaii MMA association has announced their Mixed Martial Arts performances will soon become even more mixed by merging with the TMT Observatory Corporation. Cage matches will now be held on the floor of the TMT dome in the early evening hours. The 30 meters of mirror will be protected and covered by the same experienced and dedicated crew who for decades have carefully aligned and duct taped 4x8 sheets of plywood over the floor of the Edith Kanakaole Tennis Stadium for the Merrie Monarch Competition."
"Matches will begin at 6 PM and end at 10 PM, after which the dome will quickly revert into an astronomical observatory for the duration of the night."
"It's a win-win for everyone in Hawaii, and a compromise I'm sure we can all get behind."
"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard
RE: Pointless thread - PaulW - 02-18-2016
Survival? Sure:
One day we will detect a large lump of rock on a collision course with this planet. Whether we can do anything about it depends on how much advance notice we get. How much advance notice we get depends on our ability to peer into space.
When they get ready to send up Bruce Willis et al to save us, I can almost guarantee that there will be an anti-science group that will try to sabotage the attempt, using their usual delusional arguments. Maybe that's how all civilizations eventually blink out.
RE: Pointless thread - MattKarma - 02-18-2016
As much as I appreciate Bruce Willis as a swell guy, "The Armageddon Plan" Titanium shuttle, wacko crew is soooo wrong... as is the Mars Nasa plan. The right way is to send a virus-like lander robot, that drills in and plants the thing.... assuming that breaking it up is the goal. Better than that would probably be to redirect it with a multiple nuke warhead... pretty much unlimited thrust would be developed that way to send it where-ever. Technology probably already exists ... i.e. "spooky" the Halloween asteriod.
RE: Pointless thread - TomK - 02-18-2016
Putting aside Hollywood movies, both Matt and Paul make valid points. If an asteroid with our name on it is discovered, then the more time we have the better chance we have to deal with it. Whether that's blowing it up or deflecting it will likely depend on what the asteroid is made of. Is it a loose collection of rubble or a dense lump of metal and rock? That's where ground-based telescopes come into play. Although we have telescopes that detect near-earth asteroids (NEOs, or near Earth objects), the most they can do is detect them and allow us to calculate their orbit.
The field is changing though. For instance, UKIRT is now being used by NASA to help understand the structure and composition of those asteroids as it has a unique suite of instruments that allow this. The TMT would allow even better measurements, possibly even including the NEO's shape, pretty critical if you intend to blow it up or deflect it. Doing this by launching a probe would take years of development, not helpful if time is critical.
We have also launched a couple of missions in recent years to study asteroids and comets, e.g., Deep Impact and Philae/Rosetta. One benefit from these missions is to gain experience on how to land something on a comet or asteroid, something likely needed if we want to deflect a NEO. However, even those missions depended on ground-based telescopes supporting them.
As for Matt's comment about the technology already existing, well, I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Some of it does, some of it probably doesn't, but given a threat to the planet I'm sure there would be a rush to develop what's needed, but it would still need the observations of ground-based telescopes such as the TMT to make it happen.
RE: Pointless thread - dakine - 02-19-2016
Dakine is against the telescope..
I am?
RE: Pointless thread - Obie - 02-19-2016
Don't worry, it looks like the Russians have our back on this.
Russia plans to modify some of its intercontinental ballistic missiles to destroy asteroids before they hit Earth, according to a top Russian rocket researcher.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/19/politics/russia-icbm-asteroid-killer/index.html
RE: Pointless thread - PunaMauka2 - 02-19-2016
"I am?"
Yeah, stop trying to pigeonhole Dakine. Isn't it obvious he has been sitting on the fence on this issue. ......PFFFFFFFF What a hoot.
RE: Pointless thread - PaulW - 02-19-2016
Ideological contortionist. You should run for office.
RE: Pointless thread - TomK - 02-19-2016
"Don't worry, it looks like the Russians have our back on this.
Russia plans to modify some of its intercontinental ballistic missiles to destroy asteroids before they hit Earth, according to a top Russian rocket researcher.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/19/politics/russia-icbm-asteroid-killer/index.html"
Let's hope they have a bit more success with that than building telescopes - they don't have a good record with the latter. I also have no idea why they want to blow up small asteroids that are little threat to us with nuclear weapons. The Chelyabinsk meteor, roughly the size the Russians allegedly want to nuke, caused damage and sent some people to hospital, but was below the threshold of causing a catastrophic impact. Sending nuclear weapons to intercept such a threat seems a little over-the-top to me.
RE: Pointless thread - TomK - 02-19-2016
"Dakine is against the telescope.."
"I am?"
Among many of dakine's statements, sitting on the fence appears to include statements like this:
http://www.punaweb.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21234&whichpage=8
"If the KECK facility is costing investigators $50,000 a night and the TMT is an order of magnitude bigger, and one can expect it will cost astronomers that much more, then we're talking about what? 25 million plus a year in revenue? So making it sound like the TMT is some little ol' non-profit is a weak argument. And besides, if viewing time on the TMT is going to be so awesome they'll be able to charge whatever they want."
Something I called the "Big Lie".
http://www.punaweb.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21234&whichpage=9
Oddly enough, dakine never did respond to my post. There are several more examples of dakine's opposition to the TMT, but for some reason I'm having trouble finding anything where he supports it.